folding to min cash in a tourney ur have a shot at

[Royal Flush]

He said he would do things that are optimal, shoving a 55% spot with huge ICM considerations is not optimal.

[outragous76]

He said he would do things that are optimal, shoving a 55% spot with huge ICM considerations is not optimal.

If you aren't going to play the tourney properly don't play it imo. If you have satted in take the $t.

If I qualified for the WSOP me, i am taking the money if available to me or I have satted/ bought in with the intention that the 10k isn't that important to me and I am playing for the win.

This.

Poker is a game, its all about winning, everything you do is about getting all the chips. Playing like this isn't poker, you should always play what you deem to be optimal.

[  ] he mentions money

[  x  ] he mentions chips

[pleno1]

Yeah to quote someone on here, I want to play optimal, I don't want to engage in ICM suicide. I love the concept of poker as a game, doing the "right" thing with the intention of winning. Walking away from the computer just completely baffles me. If I get AK/1010+ I am fistpumping. I'm super happy that I have a good chance to double up. If I shove A2 and get called I'm never really happy, with his calling range we are flipping at very best.

[Ironside]

ok i am 2 hands away from a mini cash in the 5 million i can fold and buy the time i get to button we will be h4h
villian has 3 bet shoved on me 5 times each time i have folded maringal hands from 77-99 and suited broadway cards
he has been more active in last 10 minutes as bubble approached shoving 3 or 4 times
and hasnt shown anything other than 99 and ak AT and A9 since we sat together

who calls who folds?

PokerStars Game #58786237996: Tournament #409020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (2000/4000) - 2011/03/07 1:49:48 WET [2011/03/06 20:49:48 ET]
Table '409020010 1473' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Bananeta (199537 in chips)
Seat 2: peixo (39379 in chips)
Seat 3: sincystar (15402 in chips)
Seat 4: HERMES270 (24751 in chips)
Seat 5: Ironside (35036 in chips)
Seat 6: K-Rock2525 (64003 in chips)
Seat 7: aqoras (36012 in chips)
Seat 8: choksiBG (17514 in chips)
Seat 9: pkrphantm08 (59148 in chips)
Bananeta: posts the ante 400
peixo: posts the ante 400
sincystar: posts the ante 400
HERMES270: posts the ante 400
Ironside: posts the ante 400
K-Rock2525: posts the ante 400
aqoras: posts the ante 400
choksiBG: posts the ante 400
pkrphantm08: posts the ante 400
HERMES270: posts small blind 2000
Ironside: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
K-Rock2525: raises 59603 to 63603 and is all-in
aqoras: folds
choksiBG: folds
pkrphantm08: folds
Bananeta: folds
peixo: folds
sincystar: folds
HERMES270 has timed out
HERMES270: folds
HERMES270 is sitting out
HERMES270 has returned

[Ironside]

ok i am 2 hands away from a mini cash in the 5 million i can fold and buy the time i get to button we will be h4h
villian has 3 bet shoved on me 5 times each time i have folded maringal hands from 77-99 and suited broadway cards
he has been more active in last 10 minutes as bubble approached shoving 3 or 4 times
and hasnt shown anything other than 99 and ak AT and A9 since we sat together

who calls who folds?

PokerStars Game #58786237996: Tournament #409020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (2000/4000) - 2011/03/07 1:49:48 WET [2011/03/06 20:49:48 ET]
Table '409020010 1473' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Bananeta (199537 in chips)
Seat 2: peixo (39379 in chips)
Seat 3: sincystar (15402 in chips)
Seat 4: HERMES270 (24751 in chips)
Seat 5: Ironside (35036 in chips)
Seat 6: K-Rock2525 (64003 in chips)
Seat 7: aqoras (36012 in chips)
Seat 8: choksiBG (17514 in chips)
Seat 9: pkrphantm08 (59148 in chips)
Bananeta: posts the ante 400
peixo: posts the ante 400
sincystar: posts the ante 400
HERMES270: posts the ante 400
Ironside: posts the ante 400
K-Rock2525: posts the ante 400
aqoras: posts the ante 400
choksiBG: posts the ante 400
pkrphantm08: posts the ante 400
HERMES270: posts small blind 2000
Ironside: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
K-Rock2525: raises 59603 to 63603 and is all-in
aqoras: folds
choksiBG: folds
pkrphantm08: folds
Bananeta: folds
peixo: folds
sincystar: folds
HERMES270 has timed out
HERMES270: folds
HERMES270 is sitting out
HERMES270 has returned

[George2Loose]

Interesting convo- course money matters. Yes we play to win but you also play for $$$$

[Longy]

Obv I am calling Iron.

[EvilPie]

Sigh calling the Ironside one and getting really pissed off when the git hits his kicker.

Never ever folding it though in this comp.

If it was WSOP bubble I'd fold it 100% of the time. It just comes down to how much the min cash means and $20k means a lot more than $450.

Anyone saying it makes no difference is an idiot.

[Cf]

Does the fact that there's 3000+ people to be eliminated before we even hit a pay jump not make a difference here?

Obv in an STT play to win carries a lot of weight in bubble situations as there's so few players left and the pots can be a lot of the chips in play. In this comp however any pots we may win at this point do help, but they by no means guarantee us a better finishing position. We could so easily still min cash even if we double up. But by risking this we could also not cash at all. Folding might leave us slightly worse off after the bubble but a double up and we're right back in it - pretty much the same situation we're in now.

Prob worded that really badly but hopefully it makes some sort of sense...

[Cf]

Or putting it this way...

FOLDING
100% chance of $350 (what ho said mincash was)
100% chance of $tournamentev1

CALLING (and let's assume we're 70/30)
30% chance of $0
70% chance of $tournamentev2

So is 0.7 x $tournamentev2 a greater value than $tournamentev1. I'm not entirely convinced it is with this many runners.


And these last 2 posts aren't even considering the taking a shot aspect. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

[boldie]

I am snap calling Iron's

[pleno1]

I am snap calling Iron's

[outragous76]

iron

this is a really funny spot. You have 15bbs (which was tourney ave from level 5 to finish pretty much). In your spot as you describe, I have no problem folding here (sigh folding obv). Given the nature of the quality of play and the fact people have cashed, there are going to be tonnes of random spews as soon as the bubble does burst.

So id fold here, and take similar spots (or less) once we have been paid

[pleno1]

iron

this is a really funny spot. You have 15bbs (which was tourney ave from level 5 to finish pretty much). In your spot as you describe, I have no problem folding here (sigh folding obv). Given the nature of the quality of play and the fact people have cashed, there are going to be tonnes of random spews as soon as the bubble does burst.

So id fold here, and take similar spots (or less) once we have been paid

With AKcc against this maniac that is 3bet shoving lots etc? I'd think about folding AQ, I'd snap this off.

[outragous76]

iron

this is a really funny spot. You have 15bbs (which was tourney ave from level 5 to finish pretty much). In your spot as you describe, I have no problem folding here (sigh folding obv). Given the nature of the quality of play and the fact people have cashed, there are going to be tonnes of random spews as soon as the bubble does burst.

So id fold here, and take similar spots (or less) once we have been paid

With AKcc against this maniac that is 3bet shoving lots etc? I'd think about folding AQ, I'd snap this off.

level?

P leno you are confusing me