Who wants to learn cash game strategy?

[totalise]

my old man does

this is where my friends at BP Come in


I imagine that there are many many people that post here, that dont quite get cash games for some reason, they feel as though they should get it, but there is something missing, something that they dont quite get

this is where we can both benefit

My old man wants me to write a text that will tell him how to win at cash games. I cant think with enough clarity on what to write to make this happen. Maybe its the 10 stellars I have had today, maybe it isn't


What I am hoping will happen, is that all the blondites on here that have problems with cash games, will post, tell me where they feel they go wrong, and I can use that info to write my old man the cash game script, and then I will post it on here. That way everyone benefits,  you all get better, my old man turns into someone that isn't a long term loser, and I can sit back and say "cool"

So, I ask you. What mistakes do you feel you make? where do you get confused? do you get in situations that you feel you make mistakes in? everyone knows where they feel uncomfy.. post it here. What dont you get.

I dont claim to be the best ring game player on the internet at all, but I have done OK, so I think we can all get something from this. Please, fire away

[Sark79]

I don't exactly know how to word this into a problem, but here goes.   When I enter a cash game, even with people I have played with on many occasion's before, I drop money.   For example, I always buy-in for the maximum amount so at $0.25/.50 NL that would be $50.  But after about 30 minutes of playing, I am generally down to about $35.  When I get to this stage, my brain switches on and I am then forced to work my way back up to $50 before I can start earning a profit.

This happens 99% of the time I play.  I am used to it now.  This isn't something that concerns me a great deal, however it is annoying when the table breaks up after getting back to $50.  Just as I am approaching my "better" game, players leave the table.  This obviously doesn't happen all the time, but at the lower limit ring games players tend to dip in for 20 minutes and then leave the game.

I see the better players playing ring games and they have a presence at the table immediately.  It takes me 30 or 40 minutes to build up steam. 

Is there a better way to approach a ring game.  At the limits I play, I generally make a profit after most sessions.  Just slowly 

Thanks

[totalise]

Sark

great post. This is the kinda stuff I am after. I just hope that we get more and more people taking your lead, as its the kinda thing that we will all benefit from

I will say this before I go to bed.. what happens generally is that when people sit down at a table, they tend to play too loose. Maybe they have come in from a days work, maybe they just woke up, maybe they got back from the pub.. whatever, they just sit at a table, and get the urge to splash around a bit. That leads them to making a few dodgy calls preflop, then they fold post flop, and all of a sudden they have chunked off 20% of their stack and htey haven't even seen the turn. What is optimal behaviour is to sit down, and not play any hand at all for the first 10 minutes (unless it is a monster) this gives you a great period of time to learn the table, learn the tendancies, and then learn how to make money from other people. Once you are armed with this info, you are in a golden spot where you can play your hands and expect to profit from it, without giving other people a free chance at profiting from you

[Royal Flush]

Great post m8.

My biggest worry is Top pair in the blinds multiway in an unraised pot. I have taken to just betting pot and folding to any resistance.

[NoflopsHomer]

I have real trouble playing NL cash at all, I'm so used to playing tournaments and the slowly shifting emphasis from betting for value to blind stealing, that I don't seem to have the patience to sit down in a ring game for a number of hours. I also prefer tournaments because I know there is a finite amount of what I can lose. I hate the idea of sitting down with $100-$300, losing it all and then having to reload.

[Sark79]

Thanks mate. I will take all that on board.     

[totalise]

Great post m8.

My biggest worry is Top pair in the blinds multiway in an unraised pot. I have taken to just betting pot and folding to any resistance.

Hi flush

yes, that is probably the most treacherous part of cash games there is. Betting is also my preference, as long as you also lead out with your flopped monsters (like 83 on an 883 flop) otherwise you get the tag of someone who leads with marginal hands, and checks with big/nothing hands. You can see why this could be a problem

A secondary benefit of leading with these hands is twofold:


a) when you are bluffing, you pick up the pot cheaper

b) when people want to try and bluff you, they have to pay a higher price (compared to if you check and they pot, if you pot and they re-pot, they are paying a large(r) sum of money on the come.)

As to what to do if you bet and they raise, well I guess that depends on the texture of the flop and any prior experience with the villains. If the board is rainbow and unconnected, I would be more prone to bet and fold, if the board is suited and there is some straight possibilities, then I am more inclined to defend and then play the turn. One of the better lines against average players when u have a vulnerable top pair is to lead the flop, if they come over the top, call, and then lead the turn (if its an apparent blank to potential draws). if they then proceed to raise you again, you can be quite sure that your weak top pair isn't going to be much good, and you can fold with comfort

If the turn does fill draws, then you can check, and then gauge what they do.. how long it takes them to bet, and what % of the pot they actually bet. Most people are exploitable in terms of what % of the pot they bet as long as you pay attention to it, so they should tell you on the turn whether or not they have it. If they dont, you can do what you want. The pot is yours for the taking

[totalise]

I have real trouble playing NL cash at all, I'm so used to playing tournaments and the slowly shifting emphasis from betting for value to blind stealing, that I don't seem to have the patience to sit down in a ring game for a number of hours. I also prefer tournaments because I know there is a finite amount of what I can lose. I hate the idea of sitting down with $100-$300, losing it all and then having to reload.

this is true, and maybe you are a gamer.. a lot of ex gamers that I speak to tell me they cant play cash games because in games there is a beginning, a middle, and an end. You dont get this in ring games, just tournies, which is why i think that most ex-gamers do great in tournies, but mince it up in ring games

One thing I mite suggest is if you are of this opinion, spend a while buying in short to cash games, and then play them like tournies. One of my firm beliefs is that there is an untapped market in cash games for people that buyin short, have limited liability, and then just play it like a sng. You can steal/resteal and get to 2* your chips quite easily, you dont win as much as you should when u get set over set, but typically in cash games there is a lot of dead money there, but the stacks are too deep to do anything about it. Buying in short negates this aspect, and it frustrates the hell out of the regulars, so you get loose calls as well. Anything to try and "knock you out"

If none of this applies, then I guess you have to try and think of it as a casino. Each bet/call/raise has a certain amount of equity to it, so if you imagine yourself as a casino, always trying to lay people incorrect odds, it becomes a bit of a game.. kinda like "be the casino".. and each time you make them do something wrong, you are the one that profits from it.

[ACE2M]

the differnce in starting hand requirements between ring games and shorthanded factoring in position.

how to play overpairs when the flop brings a paired board against more than one opponent and you are first to act.

[Nakor]

Great thread Totalise

My biggest problem is I tend to Nut Peddle for about $20 - $30pl or $40ish nl an hour at 25c/50c slightly higher at 50/1, full ring and then I will get a good holding post flop be put all in have to call to find an over pair or massive draw hit and boom profit and stake gone.  Reload or come back next day, peddle like mad, 1 bad hand and back to the start.
Aside from that I just struggle with Cash, hand requirements, good notes, when to call/raise a draw the list goes on and on.

[NoflopsHomer]

lol, I'm imagining this like a doctor's waiting room with Totalise prescribing us all drugs... 

[totalise]

lol, I'm imagining this like a doctor's waiting room with Totalise prescribing us all drugs... 

luuul

well thats what I dont want to happen. I'm kinda hoping that the better players on here will chime in, maybe disagree with me, offer different viewpoints, and then when it is all said and done, I can use the information garnered in this thread to write a pretty good e-book on how to play good NL poker. Maybe it isn't self sevicing in that it will make people better, but thats great, I like helping others to play better. I have made enough money from this game in a short space of time that I feel an oblgation to try and help others make money as well, before the boom collapses.. and I love the concept of blonde, so its a natural place to try and do it

[ifm]

lol, I'm imagining this like a doctor's waiting room with Totalise prescribing us all drugs... 

I think we'll all be invited to a cash game at the end and get fleeced by Totalise

I'd ask questions but mine seem to fit in with others, great thread!!

[Sark79]

I only really play ring games with 6 people rather than 9.  I seem to have better results playing with fewer opponents at the table.  How would you recomend that a player alters his strategy when moving to 9 players?   


What type of apple do you want?  Red or Green 

[totalise]

I only really play ring games with 6 people rather than 9.  I seem to have better results playing with fewer opponents at the table.  How would you recomend that a player alters his strategy when moving to 9 players?   


What type of apple do you want?  Red or Green 

sark

the only correct apple color is red. Anything else is wrong

As for 6 vs 9.. poker is a game of mistakes. The biggest mistake people make is overestimating their own skill levels. I have always said to my friends that the reason I make money is because my opponents make more mistakes then I do. I have no illusions about trying to be a well known great player, I just try and make money... and you do this by letting your opponents fuck up

when you are 6 handed, you give them the power to go ahead and make mistakes. They have to play more hands, this gives them more liscense to make mistakes. This is where good players have the power.

When you move to 9 players, you dont have this power, people are just sat there waiting for each other to make mistakes.. so you have to adjust your game accordingly. Its a common conception that short handed, you steal pots, but how can that be? people call more when its short handed.. when peopel call more, that means you win less pots on steals. When its full handed, there is a bunch of dead money floating around in the pots each and every hand waiting for someone to step up and take it. That person should be you

Of course, if everyone else is trying to employ the same strategy, then you should be doing the opposite.. let them go after the small pots, and then whilst they are chasing the small pots, you try and trap them in the big pots, so there is a certain amount of table dependancy involved, which you should be able to gauge at the time. .ie, do the opposite of them