Bank of Timex returns and is licensed

[arbboy]

How do you prove/disprove if someone actually played it?

Plus re entries for live events how do you deal with them and prove how many re entries a punter had even if you can prove 100% they did play the event in the first place.

[bergeroo]

they said that for re-entry events they will only do first bullet and in events where it is clearly and transparently tracked. EG pokerstars high rollers

[pleno1]

Website seems pretty poor to me too no?

[arbboy]

Website seems pretty poor to me too no?

Yes.  Let him make all the mistakes which he will make then jump on him and offer a better product. He only offers Euro's as a currency at the minute.  Surely you get the multi currency thing sorted before you even launch?  The key thing is legality and security of your money as a punter.  His current location to be based doesn't offer that like a more established GC approved location would.

[lucky_scrote]

I signed up with my UK address and from a Dutch IP address. Seems foolish of them.

[SuuPRlim]

Bit of misconception over the license here imo, a Curacao license is not a "dodgy" license, people think that a gaming license is a very complicated thing but it isn't, basically all it is a certification that you, the business owner, are qualified and suitable to operate a gaming business. Several jurisdictions are permitted to provide these licenses, Malta we all know (nearly every big gaming business has a Maltese license), Aldernay we all know as the license provider for FTP/Stars in the glory days, Curacao is another one. In theory they are all the same, but in practice they differ greatly and it depends where you are and what you are doing as to which is best.

Curacao licenses are generally pretty basic, and as a result you have some limitations which is why you wont see B365 with a curacao license (although i gte you they will have one), they are however a completely legal and official gaming license allowing the operator to run an online gaming business. They are also 5x cheaper than Maltese licenses and benefit from VERY generous tax conditions, this makes them the stand out choice for small/start-up businesses.

Once you have a license you are able to provide gaming, but certain areas (quite a few these days) require you to be licensed by them before you can operate in that market, UK as a good example, you would need a UKGC license if you were to i) market to UK players, and ii) accept deposits from UK bank accounts (POWWWWW - you deposited from Skrill/Neteller I assume?) before you cna get a UKGC license you need a gaming license from somewhere, and Curacao license is fine. However because the regulations are stricter you will have a fair but of dilligence to go through, I'd say that right now Timex would have a hard time getting a UKGC license, 15-25 months squeeky clean trading down the line I imagine he'll have no problems.

Of course, the real nuts and bolts of all this is the TAX conditions, and that is what it all boils down to.

In regards to currency options, you cant have a company account in USD if your main license is in Curacao, you can have GBP but he can't accept bank deposits from UK bank accounts. Multi-currency costs money, sticking to EURO for now seems sensible.

From the outside, it looks to me like sensible business from Timex, he's got a pretty basic but workable website and a basic but legitimate gaming license. I don;t know if he's using an edited version of someone elses software or something he's made himself but no matter how much money you spend there is ALWAYS bugs, there is ALWAYS usability issues, for your first launch, unless you're a massive company getting a site out there that is easy enough on the eye and easy to use with as few bugs as possible is the goal. Start working straight away on your 2.0 version based on the bugs you find and the feedback from your customers.

Is it very basic, YES.
Is it kind of boring, YES.
Does it work reasonably soothly and simply, YES.

I would be happy with that, and I think going slow ad steady instead of going straight in for £250k software+£150k licenses on a project that is unproven and no gte to work is defo the way to go.

I signed up with my UK address and from a Dutch IP address. Seems foolish of them.

Part of the Curacao license is that you do everything possible to prevent players from Holland+N.A/FRANCE/USA from playing, so signing up from a different IP to your address is absolutely no problem....signing up form a dutch IP though is not something they should be allowing - have you been able to deposit?

[Omm]

Bit of misconception over the license here imo, a Curacao license is not a "dodgy" license, people think that a gaming license is a very complicated thing but it isn't, basically all it is a certification that you, the business owner, are qualified and suitable to operate a gaming business. Several jurisdictions are permitted to provide these licenses, Malta we all know (nearly every big gaming business has a Maltese license), Aldernay we all know as the license provider for FTP/Stars in the glory days, Curacao is another one. In theory they are all the same, but in practice they differ greatly and it depends where you are and what you are doing as to which is best.

Curacao licenses are generally pretty basic, and as a result you have some limitations which is why you wont see B365 with a curacao license (although i gte you they will have one), they are however a completely legal and official gaming license allowing the operator to run an online gaming business. They are also 5x cheaper than Maltese licenses and benefit from VERY generous tax conditions, this makes them the stand out choice for small/start-up businesses.

Once you have a license you are able to provide gaming, but certain areas (quite a few these days) require you to be licensed by them before you can operate in that market, UK as a good example, you would need a UKGC license if you were to i) market to UK players, and ii) accept deposits from UK bank accounts (POWWWWW - you deposited from Skrill/Neteller I assume?) before you cna get a UKGC license you need a gaming license from somewhere, and Curacao license is fine. However because the regulations are stricter you will have a fair but of dilligence to go through, I'd say that right now Timex would have a hard time getting a UKGC license, 15-25 months squeeky clean trading down the line I imagine he'll have no problems.

Of course, the real nuts and bolts of all this is the TAX conditions, and that is what it all boils down to.

In regards to currency options, you cant have a company account in USD if your main license is in Curacao, you can have GBP but he can't accept bank deposits from UK bank accounts. Multi-currency costs money, sticking to EURO for now seems sensible.

From the outside, it looks to me like sensible business from Timex, he's got a pretty basic but workable website and a basic but legitimate gaming license. I don;t know if he's using an edited version of someone elses software or something he's made himself but no matter how much money you spend there is ALWAYS bugs, there is ALWAYS usability issues, for your first launch, unless you're a massive company getting a site out there that is easy enough on the eye and easy to use with as few bugs as possible is the goal. Start working straight away on your 2.0 version based on the bugs you find and the feedback from your customers.

Is it very basic, YES.
Is it kind of boring, YES.
Does it work reasonably soothly and simply, YES.

I would be happy with that, and I think going slow ad steady instead of going straight in for £250k software+£150k licenses on a project that is unproven and no gte to work is defo the way to go.

I signed up with my UK address and from a Dutch IP address. Seems foolish of them.

Part of the Curacao license is that you do everything possible to prevent players from Holland+N.A/FRANCE/USA from playing, so signing up from a different IP to your address is absolutely no problem....signing up form a dutch IP though is not something they should be allowing - have you been able to deposit?

Would the burden be on the customer breaking the t and c's and as such will have a problem withdrawing? Running the risk of losing not just your deposit but your winnings?

Great write up as well, explaining how things work, makes sense why he would choose this route.

[strak33]

Website seems pretty poor to me too no?

Yes.  Let him make all the mistakes which he will make then jump on him and offer a better product. He only offers Euro's as a currency at the minute.  Surely you get the multi currency thing sorted before you even launch?  The key thing is legality and security of your money as a punter.  His current location to be based doesn't offer that like a more established GC approved location would.

This is what i thought. Also he must have told nobody if you did not know this was coming with your connections.

[doubleup]

Would the burden be on the customer breaking the t and c's and as such will have a problem withdrawing? Running the risk of losing not just your deposit but your winnings?

Unknowingly accepting business from a region where it is illegal is a defence, but usually the region in question contacts the company to remind them that they are committing a crime.  Also not gaf and freerolling customers is obviously a scumbag move.

[POWWWWWWWW]

i) market to UK players, and ii) accept deposits from UK bank accounts (POWWWWW - you deposited from Skrill/Neteller I assume?)

Ah yeh I did

[AlexMartin]

Site looks great. Amazed he's got it licensed.

Curacao licence, same people that licenced lockpoker. Worthless tat.

[pleno1]

Website seems pretty poor to me too no?

Yes.  Let him make all the mistakes which he will make then jump on him and offer a better product. He only offers Euro's as a currency at the minute.  Surely you get the multi currency thing sorted before you even launch?  The key thing is legality and security of your money as a punter.  His current location to be based doesn't offer that like a more established GC approved location would.

He's been doing it for 5 years. Huge volume but no site.

This is what i thought. Also he must have told nobody if you did not know this was coming with your connections.

[SuuPRlim]

Would the burden be on the customer breaking the t and c's and as such will have a problem withdrawing? Running the risk of losing not just your deposit but your winnings?

Unknowingly accepting business from a region where it is illegal is a defence, but usually the region in question contacts the company to remind them that they are committing a crime.  Also not gaf and freerolling customers is obviously a scumbag move.

Yeah, it's the site responsibility to make sure that every deposit and bet they take is legal, not the customers. In reality the sites are bothered only if a) it will affect their license (no customer is worth losing your license for) and b) if it causes you problems with your banking & merchant services.  The second is actually a pretty under-rated issue, as any company with any links to gaming sites engaging financially with companies in highly regulated jurisdictions (cough, america, cough) is going to find their banking activity under huge scrutiny and that's not always ideal...

For the most part though, if you're in the UK and depositing, betting, withdrawing etc and the site knows this they will just chug on merrily and claim ignorance as the repercussions of minor infringements are close to irrelevant, you'll just be told not to do this and be expected to show some measures you are taking to prevent it from happening.

[SuuPRlim]

Site looks great. Amazed he's got it licensed.

Curacao licence, same people that licenced lockpoker. Worthless tat.

Ultimate Bet had a Malta license...

The license has nothing to do with the security of your money in practice - yes they can force you to segregate player funds, which if you're on a poker site is very crucial, but kind of irrelevant for sports books (which is effectively what BoT is) it's not your deposits you're worried about because you can just deposit to exactly what you want for each bet, it's whether you're going to be paid when you win or not.

I'd say the fact that Timex is backing the project is worth a hell of a lot more than the license in this instance.

[AlexMartin]

Site looks great. Amazed he's got it licensed.

Curacao licence, same people that licenced lockpoker. Worthless tat.

Ultimate Bet had a Malta license...

The license has nothing to do with the security of your money in practice - yes they can force you to segregate player funds, which if you're on a poker site is very crucial, but kind of irrelevant for sports books (which is effectively what BoT is) it's not your deposits you're worried about because you can just deposit to exactly what you want for each bet, it's whether you're going to be paid when you win or not.

I'd say the fact that Timex is backing the project is worth a hell of a lot more than the license in this instance.

I agree and concede that regarding licensing. Just bitter........