£50NL - Flopped FD, Turned GS, best line?

[Lambert180]

£50NL 6-max cash game on Sky...

Me and villian are start the hand 320xBB effective (he has me covered).

Villian is one of the better players at the level, I know this sounds like absolute basics (but it feels like a lot of regs don't know) but he understands which cards are good to barrel etc. He's actually thinking about ranges not just nut peddling. He'll deffo be 3betting wide this deep and knows I'll be peeling fairly wide this deep too (albeit not ridic wide when OOP) so he doesn't necessarily have to be very strong on the turn.

I open UTG1 w/  to £1.50

Villian 3bets BTN to £5 and I call

(Pot = £10.50)

 

He bets £7 and I call

(Pot = £24.50)

  turn giving me a GS too and he bets £16

The pot is now £40.50, we have £147 behind...

What would you do?

[Rexas]

For starters, I really don't like calling a 3b oop with this hand. By all means 4b it, and tbh I think there's a very good argument for 4bing, but this should be reasonably low down in our preflop opening range anyway and by calling with a hand like this oop against a seemingly strong opponent with a reasonable range we're going to be losing out long term.  

Flop seems like a pretty easy just call, so yeah.

Turn is a fun card, tbh I think turn is also a call. I think there's a pretty decent argument for donking turn too btw, but this isn't a thing people do much and it's certainly not something people balance appropriately without actively trying to do so. I don't think stacks allow for a check raise, we've got loads of equity but not enough to warrant getting fucking loads of bbs in, the A improves his range more than ours, and we're certainly absolutely fine to call and see a river card.

[shipitgood]

Raise to about £43 OTT, jam most rivers lol

[Rexas]

Raise to about £43 OTT, jam the river:)

Why? If we do that, we're taking the lead on a card that helps his range and getting into a huge pot where we have like 25% equity and getting tons and tons of bbs in with K high. I don't wanna play for 300bbs with K high. And jamming a brick river is just a disaster, what are we expecting him to fold?

I'm more of a fan of raising flop than turn for sure :p

[shipitgood]

Good raising the flop/ turn just depends on vilian.

We can make a lot fold OTR

It's quite a nitty level, set of 10s / aces call. Big aces are folding the river unimproved. Ace 10 might be a fold.

[cambridgealex]

Can't see any reason why peeling the 3bet would be bad in the slightest.

Wp so far, calling turn too.

[Rexas]

lol what can they call with?

A set of 10s (which is flatting the turn raise)

Any Ace x hand is folding the river unimproved. It's 50nl it's the nittiest level ever.

Ace 10 would prob even fold.

If we have reads that good then I guess so, but if thats the case then our implied odds are pretty awful and we should be bluffing stupidly wide, especially otf.

Like I can legit get to this turn with A4, A3, A10, 10s, and AA which obvs don't fold, as well as some other Ax dd hands which don't fold either. It would be a total disaster if the guy is calling turn and folding rivers that aren't a disaster with A10. I mean, if the guy is thinking about ranges, then what can we have? 10s, , as value hands, that's pretty much it, unless we've called pre with A10 (which I guess we would if we're calling with AJ). I also don't know whether Lambert raises any of these otf, or definitely raises them on the turn if he has flatted flop.

That being all well and good, there is a lot to be said for putting people under as much pressure as possible with deep stacks because they won't want to lose it, I just think there are better times in this hand than the turn and better times in general.

[Rexas]

Can't see any reason why peeling the 3bet would be bad in the slightest.

Wp so far, calling turn too.

Am I the only one that really doesn't like this then? Few people I've spoken to on skype think calling is good too. I just don't fancy being HU in a big pot with huge stacks and a hand that really doesn't play that well oop and can get us in some really yucky spots post with those reverse implied odds vs a guy who's not only got position but also apparently is a decent reg. As hands to 4b bluff with go, this has to be a pretty good one, right?

[shipitgood]

We have all 10's 3 and here

Presuming we are raising sets on 2-2-flush boards sometimes on the flop and sometimes on the turn.

[verndog158]

think peeling is fine too pre flop. too good a hand to 4 bet imo.
dont like raise the flop or turn really, esp as the Ah should improve him more than us. Call turn, not sure what to do if we hit. flushes are pretty obv. hope for the Q!

[Honeybadger]

Agree with Alex totally. I'd peel preflop, and c/c flop and turn.

[cambridgealex]

Don't wanna 4b bluff this hand at all, such a waste when we get 5bet! Way too good to 4bf imo. Would rather have hands that either

a) have blockers eg offsuit broadways, AJo, ATo or

b) flop well eg A6s, K9s, T7s

Usually if a hand is just too bad to peel with, but feels too good/nice to fold, then that can be a 4b bluffing hand.

Obviously this doesn't mean you should 4b bluff every time you get 3bet holding one of these hands, not by any means!

[Honeybadger]

just don't fancy being HU in a big pot with huge stacks and a hand that really doesn't play that well oop and can get us in some really yucky spots post with those reverse implied odds vs a guy who's not only got position but also apparently is a decent reg.

This is a reason to flat the 3bet rather than 4bet.

[Rexas]

Don't wanna 4b bluff this hand at all, such a waste when we get 5bet! Way too good to 4bf imo. Would rather have hands that either

a) have blockers eg offsuit broadways, AJo, ATo or

b) flop well eg A6s, K9s, T7s

Usually if a hand is just too bad to peel with, but feels too good/nice to fold, then that can be a 4b bluffing hand.

Obviously this doesn't mean you should 4b bluff every time you get 3bet holding one of these hands, not by any means!

Of those hands, I have 1 in my standard opening range from this position. I guess I'm never going to get this game :p

[shipitgood]

Obviously the Q's the dream card, but if rivers a D

And we just Flat the Turn

Are you leading the river?