Thatcher dead?

[nirvana]

One of Margaret Thatcher's legacies, that I haven't seen mentioned here, was the situation in Northern Ireland. Her failure or unwillingness to understand the situation caused the killings to go on for longer than could have been the case if a less hostile approach had been adopted. On occasion, she made provocative statements that seemed to deliberately reignite a situation that was calming down.

Her failures in this regard contrast with the later achievements of Major and Blair (and others). Lives could have been saved if a desire to do so was demonstrated earlier.

tbf, the killing in Ireland (ask any nationalist) have been going on for 800 years. Pretty ridic to single out 11 years of Thatcher and say she extended it. Just nonsense

Killing was certainly not at the same level of intensity for most of that time. It is possible that the step-by-step move to peace could have taken place a decade earlier if the government had responded differently or introduced positive initiatives of its own. Instead there were just measures which made the situation worse. Quite a contrast with what happened later. So I do think she played a significant part in extending one of the worst periods of violence, leading to hundreds more deaths.

Deaths related to the conflict

1969-78   1988
1979-88     898
1989-1998  597

So, during the first decade of Thatcher, deaths related to the conflict ran at less than 50% of the prior decade. Also, many of the doors to speaking with the nationalists were opened during that decade. Work started, despite some of her closest colleagues being killed during that time. The work then continued and as you'd expect/hope - with more and more productive results

What you assert is simply not true. But, in line with most non-partisans, let's not let facts get in the way of ding donging or eulogising (whichever ticket you take)

[MintTrav]

One of Margaret Thatcher's legacies, that I haven't seen mentioned here, was the situation in Northern Ireland. Her failure or unwillingness to understand the situation caused the killings to go on for longer than could have been the case if a less hostile approach had been adopted. On occasion, she made provocative statements that seemed to deliberately reignite a situation that was calming down.

Her failures in this regard contrast with the later achievements of Major and Blair (and others). Lives could have been saved if a desire to do so was demonstrated earlier.

tbf, the killing in Ireland (ask any nationalist) have been going on for 800 years. Pretty ridic to single out 11 years of Thatcher and say she extended it. Just nonsense

Killing was certainly not at the same level of intensity for most of that time. It is possible that the step-by-step move to peace could have taken place a decade earlier if the government had responded differently or introduced positive initiatives of its own. Instead there were just measures which made the situation worse. Quite a contrast with what happened later. So I do think she played a significant part in extending one of the worst periods of violence, leading to hundreds more deaths.

Deaths related to the conflict

1969-78   1988
1979-88     898
1989-1998  597

So, during the first decade of Thatcher, deaths related to the conflict ran at less than 50% of the prior decade. Also, many of the doors to speaking with the nationalists were opened during that decade. Work started, despite some of her closest colleagues being killed during that time. The work then continued and as you'd expect/hope - with more and more productive results

What you assert is simply not true. But, in line with most non-partisans, let's not let facts get in the way of ding donging or eulogising (whichever ticket you take)

A great deal of work was done, but most of it did not include the British government. It did participate at times, but continually dragged its feet or undermined the work and had to be cajoled along every step. I remember very clearly the frustration of people like Garret FitzGerald at the lack of co-operation from London.

[Could you post your replies without adding the pointless sideswipes each time.]

[nirvana]

[Could you post your replies without adding the pointless sideswipes each time.]

Doubtful, though I will try

[treefella]

This has been a great read. Best thread for quite some time.

Milk snatcher ? Hardly !  This just makes me so angry . Why should kids get free milk ?
I was one of these kids and i loved it .Indeed one of my mates had a milk allergy so we kept that hush and i had his every day too. Now looking back i see what a total waste of taxpayers money this was. I remember Milk was wasted every day by the gallon . Half the kids never finished it most of the time also sometimes  it was almost cheese as it was always warm.
Apart from that, why the entitlement ? There's far too much of that in todays society for sure . Why should this be a free entitlement i ask, not to mention hospital meals . Taxes can be and should be put to better use imo .
 If your ill at home know one kindly drops round a free roast dinner , so why should you get one if your in hospital ? Your food should be billed simple as ,just as if you were at home or in a hotel.

Mantis - Get over yourself eh . You make some great points then spoil it  by harping on about your own persona. Who gives a fk if your seen as a troll by some. You really want to be loved eh lol

and as Forest Gump once said  ' an that's all i have to say on this matter "  : )

[Acidmouse]

free roast dinner? you been in hospital lol..

I guess then if your ill and hsoptialised and skint you dont eat...

[treefella]

pretty much yeh . same as if you were in your own home or lodgings

[treefella]

if you do get fed . you get the bill afterward.

its called life

[Acidmouse]

so what do you pay your national insurance for?

[kukushkin88]

pretty much yeh . same as if you were in your own home or lodgings

It's pretty tragic that a person can think this. Are they allowed to starve to death if their illness/injury means they can't work and thus can't afford food?

[Acidmouse]

pretty much yeh . same as if you were in your own home or lodgings

It's pretty tragic that a person can think this. Are they allowed to starve to death if their illness/injury means they can't work and thus can't afford food?

he is either trolling poorly or pissed. No one can be like this ohh wait..

[treefella]

pretty much yeh . same as if you were in your own home or lodgings

It's pretty tragic that a person can think this. Are they allowed to starve to death if their illness/injury means they can't work and thus can't afford food?

so if at home its different ? obviously not against feeding sick people idiot !
saying if their fed they get the bill . different matter if it gets paid : )

[kukushkin88]

if you do get fed . you get the bill afterward.

its called life

It' might be what Thatcher taught you to think life is but it's not what I think life is. Most people aspire to a society where we care for and look after eachother. It's why the Conservatives haven't won an election for 20 years and are as unpopular as ever today.

[treefella]

if you do get fed . you get the bill afterward.

its called life

It' might be what Thatcher taught you to think life is but it's not what I think life is. Most people aspire to a society where we care for and look after eachother. It's why the Conservatives haven't won an election for 20 years and are are as unpopular as ever today.

This is why you lefties have it so wrong . the sense of entitlement is shameful.
the poorest in society are always provided for from the pot in this country thankfully , but for too long people have gorged from the state on what they should be providing some contribution to as they are not truly poor.

[Acidmouse]

But you do pay for it via your NI contributions so i dont get your point.

[treefella]

Ni contributions are way below what they should realistically be to cover the NHS imo.
I would argue that majority of people who unfortunately end up in hospital for one reason or another would be prepared to pay for what they eat/drink as they do in everyday life.
Same argument applies to kids milk. Give it to them by all means but the parents get the bill.
Obviously if people are 'skint' then there should be a system in place to cover these costs.Paid for by the majority of society such as the free school meals, that are in place today for the minority that are far less fortunate.
Btw i hate the term' free school dinners ' this only ridicules and segregates.
If you see the point as trolling then your wrong im afraid : )
Paying ones way into society for the benefit of everyone. So lets not take Thatcherism as im alright jack because its not.