ICM sucks

[Cf]

£1

Bit unfair, you realise how many of these I play a day? Legitimate post, although everyone agrees call these hands have to be towards the bottom of our calling range if not the very bottom...

lol soz, was prob a bit harsh

Actually. thinking about it, I did post the hand histories and said FML so it's probs fair enough!

Will you two please stop fighting? This is supposed to be a friendly forum.

Aye. I feel guilty. I don't think MC is gonna post another thread on PHA now in fear of more ridicule

[MC]

lol

[DMorgan]

Not sure why these are on PHA when you can get the correct answers from SNGWiz or similar but at a quick glance both look like pretty clear calls.

The problem with doing everything strictly by ICM is that it becomes exploitable.

If someone knows that your calling range is QQ+ then they can shove on you every single hand.

Playing perfect ICM strategy isn't exploitable. You are only ever making +EV calls. How can a strategy that says call when your EV is >0 and fold when it isn't ever be exploitable? The incorrect application of ICM (assigning your opponents incorrect ranges) is exploitable but so is the incorrect application of any poker theory.

Getting good at ICM includes being able to adjust to when peoples ranges change so obviously if the guy in shoving any 2 there are seldom times when calling with QQ+ is the correct application of ICM.

[Rupert]

he showed up with Q6 and you're wondering if it's close! hope you made a note! i'd call both fwiw you play good

[AlexMartin]

I am calling both, I would imagine sngwiz disagrees with me given reasonable ranges. Then again I am happy to take slight -EV spotS according to wiz as it is just too fking tight on finals imo.

Reasoning wiz fails massively on chip utility spots as if we win hand 1, we got so many great +ev spots battering the table round with our big stack it is worth taking the -ev spot. In certain spots we got exploited to fk by the chip leader if we pass and have a tonnes of -ev spots down the line.

word

[action man]

fk me james must be so boring playing 100's of these a week and wondering if its icm correct to call in these spots.

[dakky]

I didn't see results before I was going to write this:

hand 1 call, win a (almost certain) flip, and get stack to win comp

2: man you've got to snap that off so fast. You are absolutely massive against his range which will include any ace, 2 picutres, pairs etc etc Passing this spot to try to ladder to 2nd will cost you so many shots at 1st place