KK just outside the money

[RED-DOG]

Just lately I have been busted out of the late stages of 4 comps while holding KK

Each time I had better than average chips

It was the same scenario every time, I raise, he re-raises I go all in, he calls

I have lost once to AA, twice to AQ and once to AK, in the last two cases, the A has fallen on the turn or the river

Now I'm thinking, Is it better, in that situation, to just call the re-raise, and bet the flop if no A falls

If I had, I would probably have won 3/4 and escaped with a playable stack from the one where the A flopped

What do you think?

[Robert HM]

Seems sensible and your recent experiences says it's the way to go, won't save you against AA though but AAvKK is always destined to be a bloodbath

[tikay]

Well, you woulda lost against the AA anway, but I think you've just been unlucky. If you see a flop & an A comes, who's to say the oppo won't represent it. I've seen it done....

And there is a 40% chance the A will come on the Turn or River (40% relative to the board as a whole).

Don't change a thing Tom, it's a Form thing.

[RED-DOG]

Well, you woulda lost against the AA anway, but I think you've just been unlucky. If you see a flop & an A comes, who's to say the oppo won't represent it. I've seen it done....

And there is a 40% chance the A will come on the Turn or River (40% relative to the board as a whole).

Don't change a thing Tom, it's a Form thing.

Yes, this post did sound like a bit of a moan, it wasn't, honest.

I just wondered if there was a better way to play it

[Robert HM]

Thinking about tikay's answer, I think he's right, when all is said and done you are in the lead and favourite when the money goes in, except, of course, when your facing the Aces

[RED-DOG]

Thinking about tikay's answer, I think he's right, when all is said and done you are in the lead and favourite when the money goes in, except, of course, when your facing the Aces

Yes, but do it 3 times in a comp and you are favorite to lose

Still, I think you're right, he's right

[JungleCat03]

Sounds like you've made quite a few final tables recently red, probably because you are getting in these good situations!

Don't let a few suckouts change your good play. On the bubble, i reckon it's a good time to be even more hyper aggressive with these hands as your opponents will often lean a bit more towards folding. Pile the pressure on. If you get called you're in good shape (unless you run into AA)

If they make the bad call and suck out that's a bit**. Cry a little, kick the table/dog/other object that's not gonna hit back, mutter obscenities under your breath and put it down to form then come back and win the next one.

Good luck !!

[Gamblor21]

I do like to smooth call raises with KK but is normally when i am trying to bust big chip stacks etc...

I think there is + and - for each but it depends on situations, and whether you know your opponent can bet without ace when it drops as tikay said. I say just mix up how you play them, but smooth calling could lead to them being busted by 74 just as easily as AK

[Sheriff Fatman]

I'd probably factor the chip stacks of myself vs re-raiser into any decision here.  From RED's post it sounds as though he was up against a bigger stack on each occasion here, so potentially I'm more likely to call and see a flop.  Compare that to a situation where a re-raise puts the decision back on the other player for all his chips and I'm more likely to re-raise pre-flop.

Sheriff

[ifm]

I like what Rob Yong said about this, something along the lines of if you flat call and see the flop you are only giving your opponent the chance to see 3 cards whereas if you go allin then you are letting them see all 5 and hitting their ace on the turn or river.
It made me think when i read it and although some will bet any flop i think in the long run it is a sound phylosophy (sp?) as you can get away from kings on the flop.

[RED-DOG]

I like what Rob Yong said about this, something along the lines of if you flat call and see the flop you are only giving your opponent the chance to see 3 cards whereas if you go allin then you are letting them see all 5 and hitting their ace on the turn or river.
It made me think when i read it and although some will bet any flop i think in the long run it is a sound phylosophy (sp?) as you can get away from kings on the flop.

Well put Ian, those are the lines I was thinking along

[JungleCat03]

this is ok, but they'll always be the times when the flop comes A hi and you lose chips vs no action against a lower pair, bluffed off the flop by a worse hand, or even when someone has raised with a steal hand and you give them a cheap shot at the flop and they hit.

Planning to call and check fold on an A high flop means you will be bluffed off the flop sometimes. Position is a consideration too. It will be easier to know if you're ahead if you flat call in position and tougher for you opponent to bluff you.

[Longy]

There is some similar thread on here started by phil discussing flat calling a re raise with kings. I think there are powerful arguement to this as you can throw your kings on the flop or only let your opponent see three cards to catch his ace.

[NoflopsHomer]

There is some similar thread on here started by phil discussing flat calling a re raise with kings. I think there are powerful arguement to this as you can throw your kings on the flop or only let your opponent see three cards to catch his ace.

I don't like to flatcall too often. You want to build the pot surely when you have the best hand. If you flat call and (more than likely) he misses, he gets away cheaply.

[doubleup]

You've just been unlucky Red - at this stage in the tourney ppl are rerasing with any pair, any big ace.