The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MC]

My parents are tilting the living shit out of me because they voted leave because  the country is being overrun by immigrants and they are taking away taxes they have paid over the last 50 years etc.

I haven't been able to articulate anything beyond this being bullshit, can anyone drop some knowledge on me so I can provide a counter argument?

[DaveShoelace]

My parents are tilting the living shit out of me because they voted leave because  the country is being overrun by immigrants and they are taking away taxes they have paid over the last 50 years etc.

I haven't been able to articulate anything beyond this being bullshit, can anyone drop some knowledge on me so I can provide a counter argument?

As a professional poker player I'd steer clear of the tax debate with them because they've got a trump card against you. Just ask them to stop being mean buggers or someink.

[4KSuited]

Anyone getting sick of listening to this 'the kids knew 73% voted remain, the baby boomers have ruined it for the future etc'.  Since when has the youth of today suddenly been so clued up about since big decisions that they have got it right and everyone else who is more experienced in life has got it so badly wrong?

As a "young" person I would like to chime in. Quite clearly the vote was very close and the nation has been divided. The single thing that annoys me about this whole campaign is that such a gross proportion of people that voted "leave" don't know what they are voting for. Nobody has a fucking clue what is going on at the moment, there is just lots of skepticism.

In response to what I have said above, I think the smarter vote is to remain because of the uncertainty. That is literally the only reason I would vote remain, I cannot distinguish the bullshit and propaganda from the truth among the campaigning so it feels way too risky to change something so great, especially when there is no immediate threat in our country.

When I woke up this morning, I hoped for terrible things to happen in the future just so I can say "told you so", but I don't think the public that voted leave is at fault at all. People are quite compassionate about their own country (rightly so) and feel the need to stand up for themselves in some way.

Arb has succinctly answered the question of "no risk attached to remaining", so I'll just comment on the other points.

You say "there is no immediate threat" to our country. Well it's not the immediate future people are thinking of; it's where we might be in 40 or 50 years time when we've had net migration of 250k plus p/a. Overlay that with the fact that it's the immigrant population that has a disproportionate birthrate. Neither does this allow for any additional refugees we accept from areas of conflict. We only had one chance of a referendum- do you really think any future gov would let us have another after a close run thing?

I fear that this country's infrastructure & resources are already overstretched, and we're still running an annual budget deficit that's simply adding to the 1.3 trillion cumulative debt that we need to service the interest on. Remaining in the EU would entail a whole series of uncertainties and risks of its own, so don't swallow the "better the devil we know" argument.

Personally, I feel like we've been given the chance to get out of a failed relationship with someone we no longer love; and whilst I don't know if I'll meet someone else & have a relationship with, I'm just happy to be single again.

[arbboy]

My parents are tilting the living shit out of me because they voted leave because  the country is being overrun by immigrants and they are taking away taxes they have paid over the last 50 years etc.

I haven't been able to articulate anything beyond this being bullshit, can anyone drop some knowledge on me so I can provide a counter argument?

Immigrants generally are net contributors to the tax system not takers as most people think.  The vast majority of people who travel to live aboard generally do so to work not sign on whatever people think.  They are generally fit, young, single with few dependents, healthy, hard working people who are looking to get on in life.  The dossers generally just stay in the countries they were born in as they don't have the ambition or drive to move country or suitable health/finances to risk such a move.

[nirvana]

Over-run is an emotive word and don't know where your parents live but for parts of extra urban and parts of rural Britain it probably feels like this.

If you've lived in London and around for a lot of your life then it's easy to celebrate diversity because it's been cosmopolitan for a long time. The rate of change was relatively slow (a couple of spikes with WI migration and Asian migration from Africa) and each layer of immigration kind of further enriched the melting pot in, I always felt, a very positive way.

I'm sure it doesn't feel like that everywhere

[nirvana]

My parents are tilting the living shit out of me because they voted leave because  the country is being overrun by immigrants and they are taking away taxes they have paid over the last 50 years etc.

I haven't been able to articulate anything beyond this being bullshit, can anyone drop some knowledge on me so I can provide a counter argument?

Immigrants generally are net contributors to the tax system not takers as most people think.  The vast majority of people who travel to live aboard generally do so to work not sign on whatever people think.  They are generally fit, young, healthy, hard working people who are looking to get on in life.  The dossers generally just stay in the countries they were born in as they don't have the ambition or drive to move country or suitable health/finances to risk such a move.

WTF, you've gotten remarkably sensible in the last couple of days

[redsimon]

Does a candidate for conservative leader have to be a M P ?

[TightEnd]

Does a candidate for conservative leader have to be a M P ?

practically yes, though a long time ago the Lord's had prime ministers. Won't be Ruth Davidson who would be a spectacular candidate

[McGlashan]

My parents are tilting the living shit out of me because they voted leave because  the country is being overrun by immigrants and they are taking away taxes they have paid over the last 50 years etc.

I haven't been able to articulate anything beyond this being bullshit, can anyone drop some knowledge on me so I can provide a counter argument?

Immigrants generally are net contributors to the tax system not takers as most people think.  The vast majority of people who travel to live aboard generally do so to work not sign on whatever people think.  They are generally fit, young, healthy, hard working people who are looking to get on in life.  The dossers generally just stay in the countries they were born in as they don't have the ambition or drive to move country or suitable health/finances to risk such a move.

My old man thinks immigrants take our jobs, pay no taxes, and are given nice houses.  And he voted reamain. Quite the conversation so it was.

[arbboy]

My parents are tilting the living shit out of me because they voted leave because  the country is being overrun by immigrants and they are taking away taxes they have paid over the last 50 years etc.

I haven't been able to articulate anything beyond this being bullshit, can anyone drop some knowledge on me so I can provide a counter argument?

Immigrants generally are net contributors to the tax system not takers as most people think.  The vast majority of people who travel to live aboard generally do so to work not sign on whatever people think.  They are generally fit, young, healthy, hard working people who are looking to get on in life.  The dossers generally just stay in the countries they were born in as they don't have the ambition or drive to move country or suitable health/finances to risk such a move.

WTF, you've gotten remarkably sensible in the last couple of days

haha.  Just trying to describe me when i moved aboard to work twice in my life.  Think i was a pretty standard economic immigrant when i moved aboard to work.

[TightEnd]

Question time. Might have asked these in the last fortnight, but still....

[arbboy]

Funny conversation i had this morning in the steam room at my gym.  Got chatting to a young lady in her 20s about the vote etc.  She voted to remain for the following reason 'I really fancy a Polish guy who works in my local pub and i don't want him to get sent home'  She also thought EU stood for 'Eastern Europeans' as well not the European Union.  She had no idea what the EU actually was or stood for!  Only in Stoke.  It was hard keeping a straight face once i realised she was serious.

[nirvana]

Question time. Might have asked these in the last fortnight, but still....

Probably the remain voters asking just in case it was true that the earth would actually stop turning

[The Camel]

Funny conversation i had this morning in the steam room at my gym.  Got chatting to a young lady in her 20s about the vote etc.  She voted to remain for the following reason 'I really fancy a Polish guy who works in my local pub and i don't want him to get sent home'  She also thought EU stood for 'Eastern Europeans' as well not the European Union.  She had no idea what the EU actually was or stood for!  Only in Stoke.  It was hard keeping a straight face once i realised she was serious.

Sadly, far from "only in Stoke"

I've seen people on facebook say they voted leave to stick two fingers up to the tories. And are delighted Cameron has gone.

Only they are going to get a hard right government way way way worse than Dave and Gideon. That hasn't occurred to them.

[MANTIS01]

Just to clarify, we haven't left the continent of Europe, just a political union. I have witnessed near hysteria from some quarters today, like the gestapo are gonna come marching down the street any minute. We haven't left Europe peoples...

Btw chatting politics with a sexy 20-something in the steam room sounds like an ideal start to the day.