blonde poker forum

£25 freeze 8k starting chips
blinds on a gentle increase
starting 100/200 200/400 300/600 400/800 500/1000 600/1200

you have QQ one off the cutoff and have 16000
average stack is aroun 10-12l
3 utg pushes all in for 3800

my thinking is you have 4 moves

1 fold
2 call
3 make a mini raise to 7k
4 make a raise to 10k (basically all in as only one guy on table still to act has more that 12k)

1 if your not going to play QQ against a short stack should you really be playing at all
2 if you get called or raised you dont know where your at
3 are you really going to fold to a reraise apart from the one other guy with more chips than you
4 you have the 3rd best starting hand let people know you have a big hand and that unless they have AA or KK they shouldnt really get involved

wot are the blinds at this stage??

i like to shove myself. like u said u aint gonna really be able to fold to another raise and thi lets people know u have a hand and more chance of keeping it heads up which is wot u want. 3800 plus the blinds is a nice little win if ur hand holds (or sucks out)

if someone has AA or KK behind, then i guess that just poker

sorry blinds are 300/600

I'm shoving here, only move that makes sense. You would never put this down, and if you flat call you run the risk of some muppet calling with A-Q, cos its soooted, same with the min raise, and if you're gonna raise and use over half your stack you may as well get it all in preflop.

If I run into KK/AA then I'm just unlucky, that's poker.

Push.

Shove to isolate, you are ahead of the shorties range 100% of the time. Also your hand rates to be the best at the table but it is vunerable to being outdrawn so get it in now.

insta shove.

1) Raise to 10k
2) Call any resulting all in
3) Lose to KK
4) Go play casino table games instead
5) Profit

i was just checking as MKKfish still reckons it was a bad play so i told him i would put it on here

There is 4700 in the pot. Which equates to 30% of your stack. You have the third best starting hand. You have 26BBs.

Shove here every single time. And it isn't close; or a matter of styles; or dependant on reads; or your abillity relative to the field; blah, blah, blah.

as i said in post above i was happy with my play but MKKfish who was sat next to me reckons i could of gotten away from it

Get away from what did some accidentally expose aa or kk.

I agree with everyone here, push is the right move. I dont understand how you'd get away from this hand. What were the specific reads on the guy? If he only goes all in with AA or KK then maybe lol.

i have pointed this thread out to MKKfish and hopefully he will explain what i was supposed to do to save me losing 11.3k with this hand

ahem *cough* ok here goes....

Firstly I believe you had 6 peeps to act after you. Now I know you have a hand that'll stand up x times out of x but it was your tourney life. The bet was about 6 x BB so was isolating in itself without you adding to it and if anyone came in after you they had to be ahead of you. If they went over the top you could then fold, unless you wanted to race AK, (which is a doubtful holding given the initial raise). A smooth call behind you would raise alarm bells but at least you would get to see a flop and take it from there.
But your all in has no upside but lots of downside. As I said, isolation was already achieved and all that could happen was that you were gonna get caught with your pants down if someone behind you woke up with AA/KK.

You had a decent stack and I don't think you needed to get yourself where you were on that hand - I believe I told you that you were f*cked before the cards went over.

*edit* you say you were one from CO...really?....I'm sure I was MP and you acted before me....you had to be in fact coz that was the whole basis of the ruck. Maybe I should drink less.

Im not sure what the standard is like in this tournament but you make it sound like everyone behind iron is going to understand what is going on. In my experience online/live 6bb raises don't on their own isolate at all, iron calling makes the pot quite big and live players love what they call "value" and will limp behind with all kinds of stuff here aq,aj,a10,kq, pairs and thats the tight ones.

Your going to fold to a shove right, ok whats a reasonable shoving range behind here ak,jj+ looks kind of tight and right. Once we have limped behind and a guy shoves for avg 11k assume he is the button. In the pot already is 19.2k (3.8+3.8+11+200+400) so iron will have to call 7.2k to win 19.2k so only needs to 27% to win the hand to justify calling.

Iron is 47% against the range i have assigned, 39% against ak,aa,kk. Only not getting odds against purely aa,kk and that is not a realistic range for small buyin live tourney player IMO.

As said before isolating to shove here looks best.

Well the way I play it out if it was my hand is that I fold preflop...

OR 6 x BBs and All in
Me Flat call
SB Uber re-raise
Me Fold

Assuming that the SB would make the reraise, (which he would have done knowing him).

If the SB flat called then unless an A, K or Q comes on the flop we are in a world of pain coz I guess the chippage is flying on a raggy flop.

However if an A or K flops we are still in the game with a playable stack.

Although I'm probably not being clear what I am saying is that the shove doesn't leave any options and for me I'm not doing that until I'm < 10BBs.

u were cut off
guy next to you was button then there was an empty seat followed by sb then empy seat then big blind

ok apologies... still 4 to act so same result for me.

Was unlucky tho mate... at least you got to go and perv the dealers lol.

sorry mate you cannot fold QQ to a short stacks all in IMHO

and from reading above looks like your the only one that can

Lol I didn't say that in shape or form.....

you said call then fold or raise then fold which is even worse IMHO

ok well let's agree to differ.... playing it my way you're still in - your way you were out. I really can't see what you think is wrong with a flat call and a lay down to a re-raise but heyho you play it as you see it.

See you Tuesday :)

You can't just call here, with 4 players after you somebody could see the call as weak and put you on AJ or AQ and make a play by pushing over the top. This would then give you an extra dilemma - is he/she making a play or am I actually beat? A shove here takes away tough decisions like this.

I think you're both fish :)

I don't understand... (a) There's an all in (b) there's been a flat call.. er what are you going to 'make a play' with and er...why. If Ironsides folds you're just chip for chip with the original raiser so unless you've got the goods yer fecked.

Sorry but some posts on here just leave me shaking my head.

My upside is that I know I am....

my upside is i know you are too

lmao

Depends on the opponents but in live play I've saw people do this with 99 1010 thinking that the call came from a player holding AQ AJ so they're not too bothered if they get called or not as they would figure they're ahead and can win the side pot or take the whole thing if the pusher has an under-pair or an Ace that is cancelled out by the original caller to the push. Some of these people made a bad move but I've also saw a couple of tricky players do this as well. What you have said is that if someone pushes all-in you can easily fold but if a tricky player then pushes, who may or may not have the goods, what do you do? By pushing here it takes a potential tricky problem away.

Benny,
Well once again I have to say that you play it as you see it and good luck to you. I still stick with my original position on the basis of a shove behind Ironsides flat call is beating him. As it happens I don't even want to be racing for my tourney life at this stage even if the re-raiser is AK.

Again I stress it's for each of us to play it as we see it.

V funny Ironsides... must buy you some scrambled eggs next time you're in...