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NL Texas Hold'em  Trny: 37364623 Level: 2   Blinds(30/60) - Friday, December 21, 15:39:26 ET 2007
Table Friday Special (1262009) Table #3 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: KipsterDK ( 9,600 )
Seat 3: winsumore ( 4,650 )
Seat 5: NORSE_HORSE ( 4,505 )
Seat 6: DamPFwalZe_ ( 5,850 )
Seat 7: top2boys ( 4,040 )
Seat 9: turatsok ( 6,185 )
Seat 10: Patenny ( 10,130 )
Seat 1: Kowaino ( 6,280 )
Seat 8: mukl333 ( 8,380 )
Trny: 37364623 Level: 2
 Blinds(30/60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NORSE_HORSE [  Jc Ac ]
Patenny folds
Kowaino calls [60]
KipsterDK raises [240]
winsumore folds
NORSE_HORSE calls [240]
DamPFwalZe_ folds
top2boys folds
mukl333 folds
turatsok folds
Kowaino calls [180]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 4s, 9h ]
Kowaino checks
KipsterDK checks
NORSE_HORSE checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ As ]
Kowaino checks
KipsterDK checks
NORSE_HORSE checks
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
Kowaino checks
KipsterDK checks
NORSE_HORSE bets [600]
Kowaino raises [1,800]
KipsterDK folds
NORSE_HORSE

The hand has been played very passively, he might put you on a steal given you're last to act. Air or the nuts?

I pass preflop btw.

my thoughts are he aint got a single 9 or a better kicker with ace so he either flopped a set or has you on a steal

when you make a value bet last to act on the river you have to be prepared to call the check raise IMHO

otherwise just check it down

I fold preflop readless but you should have a read here of sorts unless he has just moved to the table (or you are new). Check flop is obv standard.

I bet turn, I don't get why you would want to creative here.

As played value bet on the river is fine but i make it abit smaller as everyone is looking super weak here and you are trying to get a pocket pair to call here. I make it more like 450. Fold to the raise its not close.

5% of players make this move with a hand you can beat. gd fold.

I was 4 tabling, the PFR is active that's all i know.

I checked the turn as nothing can pay me from what i see and there is no real danger.

I VB here close to pot as it looks like a bluff, i can't actually have anything here (after the creative turn check :D)

I snap called, worrying if Iron is doing the same :D


Passing pre, you are all nits! 5% of your chips.

What can the guy have? I can't think of any better hand than mine....

I often see this more and more now.

To min raise a bet on the river - done more to say "you havent got anything here and I will take this pot"

Call for me everytime

What did he have?

3's full 4's full or quad 9's

It's not a minraise though, it's 3x his bet...

I think I agree with floppy, it's either a big hand or nothing. Possibly something inbetween too.

Having thought about this (its amazing what 7/8 pints can do for you poker analysis), I really don't mind postflop and not betting the turn is alright on the basis you can make your hand look like a bluff on the river and pick up some value.

Preflop your hand has massive reverse implied odds from the start against his range, hence the need for this thread in the first place. As you hit top pair and still don't love your hand. Your hand turns into a 2nd best hand that will call down at least one street of value when beat and when you do hit a hand that struggles to attain value as worst hands rarely call.AJ is a crap hand deep because of these problems.

i dont like preflop, and I'd prolly bet the turn to get a call from a non-believing underpair/buy a cheap showdown as they checck monsters and u dont get 2 streets of value from a worse hand typically. As for the river, I rarely see anyone limp preflop, and then check all 3 streets and then raise the river (with that sized bet) with a hand worse then flushys... he porlly has 3's full or quads and is patting himself on the back for an "awesome" slowplay, so thats enough for me to fold this river, but the bet is defo fine.

I know the PFR so i'm more inclined to call, tho I prob would vs most active players. Nobody has shown any interest in the pot so why check a big hand when you expect alot of aces to check behind now anyway, I call it looks like the "he's stealing i'm taking it with KQ or some trash". Sure he might have quad nines but I strongly disagree with the only 5% will reraise you here with nothing. I do it all the time. The only case for folding is the Ace given preflop action makes this play alot more difficult for him.

I think folding pre is best. Like bet / fold on the river. Your like, never good here.

i call the river and call pre. u've induced the bluff and got what you wanted.

instacallage... defo see a flop here too

Ps, was this on party?

Yeah, you call even faster?

no. on party you min re-raise. then he snap calls with A2o.

Nope i value shove!

He's prob got A3/A4 and thinks his 3 pair are good.

Like you said, what can he have here?

he has raised pre, got 2 callers, checks a great opprotunity to bet with his genuine/represent an overpair on a 9 high flop, checks the A on the turn, whcih again he still might get u 2 off ur hand with a big enough bet representing AK and reraises your bvalue bet ont he river.

I cant even bear to think he rr'd pre with 33/44 so UNLESS he has 99, he has played it like an idiot and you are ahead.

EDIT, the only way he checked that flop could have been is that im guessing u had a LAG/SLAG image and he ws checking thinking you would bet being last to act. When you didnt, he knew he had F'd up and the ace was the worst card that could come for him on the turn, he is scared now so is no longer checking to CR and instead is just hoping to see the river. When you check, he might actually think he is still wining this now and tries to take the pot on the river with the RR pretty much sure there is no way you would have checked the Ace turn with an Ace. Im now putting him on QQ.

The guy re-raising the river was not the PFR, it was the PF limper.

As it happened he had 3's full, neverends.

<shakes head>

aint i good

i still think if your going to value bet the river you have to pay him off

but if you have any doubts then just check it down your last to act it costs you nothing

why do you have to call if you bet? hand ranges are dynamic, theres a huge chance that flushys bet can get paid off by worse, so checking here is playing far too weak. If it was the preflop raiser that raised the river, it would prolly be more prudent to call, but when someone limp calls a raise preflop, hes already announced hes playin defensive, and so when he springs into action, he almost always has it.

the reason i bet there is to get more money in the pot

the guy reraises but your getting nearly 3-1 to call the river bet

you got what you wanted more money in the pot and you got it


now you have to work out how often he will have a hand that beats your on the river

if its less than 70% of the time you have to call

i would say (without knowing the players) that as a general rule you will get reraised here after a poistional raise  with a hand that you beat about 50% of timeso it would be a call

if you werent last to act and you get reraised then it makes it alot closer to the 70% (to make 3-1 profitable)