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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: Mitch on March 21, 2010, 01:16:56 AM



Title: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Mitch on March 21, 2010, 01:16:56 AM
Ok, hand from £2/£5 cash game at DTD vs Pete Chaararararararararararalambos.

Only played with him twice before but was well aware of his extremley rocky reputation, probably fair to say in the last couple of times we had played together he has lived up to this, if not far supassed it with his nittyness.

Although hes tight hes got decent results and has been playing for a decent period of time so i know he is deffinatley capable of playing off his image.

Ok Pete opens utg+2 to £15 from a ~£1k stack and I decide to pop it up with  Kd 3d to £45 (£1200 stack) from cut off, everybody else passes, Pete throws in the call without any any real thought, i.e. didnt seem to even consider a raise.

Flop comes down  Ac Qd 2d  (Pot £97). Pete checks and I bet £65, he dwells for 6 or 7 seconds and just calls, although it looked to me that he was thinking about popping it up a bit on the flop.

Turn comes down  8h (Pot £227). Pete quickly checks. After my read on the flop I dont want to get check raised off my hand by AQ for example and i dont think im getting him to fold too much of his range here so i take a free card to hit my hand.

River comes my flush card but pairs the board with the  8d. Pete then launches a pink £100 chip into the pot. To me this looks like a bit of a stopper bet with something like KQ or possibly a medium flush. I decide to raise to £305. He then insta throws his stack of pinks into the middle and announces all in for £485 more.

Call? Fold? or cry!?

What can he have here? Do people who have played with him before expect him to be value shoving  Ad Xd here?

Thoughts please.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: GreekStein on March 21, 2010, 01:54:25 AM
Only played against Pete twice, and yeah he's very tight.

When you've played against him what has your image been? I.e is he aware you're a lagtard or have you managed to not show down too much?

Normally I guess this would be a crying fold, but the speed with which he moves in makes me want to call. Could he be turning the Ad into a bluff?

Hmmm bit of a fuckery this one, think it may be a sigh dwell fold. (I call).


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: titaniumbean on March 21, 2010, 02:23:10 AM
Only played against Pete twice, and yeah he's very tight.

When you've played against him what has your image been? I.e is he aware you're a lagtard or have you managed to not show down too much?

Normally I guess this would be a crying fold, but the speed with which he moves in makes me want to call. Could he be turning the Ad into a bluff?




Cry and


Quote
Hmmm bit of a fuckery this one, think it may be a sigh dwell fold. (I call).


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: The Camel on March 21, 2010, 02:49:38 AM
Trivially easy pass aginst this player imo.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: SuperJez on March 21, 2010, 04:07:59 AM
Definately fold, it looks a lot like AA full or maybe QQ to me


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: railtard1 on March 21, 2010, 05:34:12 AM
lol... so its just a fold against this player ? pretty sure its a fold vs any player..

pete plays good solid and good IMO and would expect him to have qq here often.



Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Royal Flush on March 21, 2010, 05:51:38 AM
I don't understand why we raise the river?


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Sack it off on March 21, 2010, 06:13:25 AM
Fold, he has QQ.

He calls on any other flush and it's never a bluff


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: NoflopsHomer on March 21, 2010, 11:24:00 AM
I don't understand why we raise the river?

Yeah, this.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: GreekStein on March 21, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
Meh I really think I'd call here. If Pete takes any amount of time to consider before he moves in I pass, but he's done it so quickly I expect him to be running a bluff here with Axdd. Live tells ftw.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: NigDawG on March 21, 2010, 03:56:02 PM
I don't understand why we raise the river?

i like what this man has to say


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: GreekStein on March 21, 2010, 04:56:33 PM
ok im going to write it all again so be patient guys

We're all clicking auto refresh waiting.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: GreekStein on March 21, 2010, 05:40:06 PM
had to post that bit cos as u keep busting my balls an the first 1 i wrote got lost so boo hoo, not sure which 1 was better but firts 1 was more funny ok let me get back to it

Is Frankie helping you write it?


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Longy on March 21, 2010, 05:41:48 PM
Only played wt Mitch 1 time before an hes a really nice guy an plays poker well considering ive seen him loose both times! Suppose im flattered to be called a NIT an for this hand to be talked about so ill give u my 15 years expierence on the matter...... I played a week earlier wt Mitch an had played extremly solid which i like to do in general!! Had just retired from online poker due to big downswing even though i had amaased £80000 in live touneys in thelast year an still came out losing? Yeah wierd considering im suppose to be cash game pro ! But felt had to retire from the virtual world of short handed plo an revert back to basics of NL hold em....... Really is a great game to learn the value of £ again after all those numbers online an just 3an 4 betting wt hands like 6789 or 258Q in plo lol an not being able to pass!to the grind of live mid stakes 9 handed NL hold em needing the patience of a tortoise to succeed.Great to get my game back an most importantly confindence.OK here goes i sit down wt £1000 after busting out of irish sattelite an after 10 mins i find the BIG CHARRA, Yes they named a hand after me after india storra was abusing me on felt i did a sick play wt a hand in the £3000 gukpt main event.John eamess,Matt perrins, Jake cody,Tom macdonald an Stuart rutter now called me Big Charra which is  8h 5h. There was a straddle an i opened for £35 but it wasnt suited a big no no ! a brummie lad on tilt an short stacked repopped it to £100 an a calling station called so i decided to not get involved as i have a tendecny to have to win the pot at all costs wt this hand an as fate has it, tilty boy floped trips so i dodged a bullet!!! So 2 hands later me an mitch play this pot where i rasie utg wt  Ad Ts to £15 an soon as i saw mitch look at his chips i always knew he was 3 betting as he had me down as really solid wt abc gameplan! An i had him down as another young gun an had seen many of his kind in my life an knew how to handle them! Called his reiase wt no hesetation as knew he was raisng me light an that he had a plan to outplay this NIT but i had other plans.When the flop came i was 90% certain i was in front an elected to check call even though 4 a split second i almost raised but i thought out of postion ill play a small pot as i had a rough idea how his betting would go if he didnt have a real hand. The turn came  8h an i didnt really like this card as my range of hands i put him on preflop were mid cards like 9 j or 10 j or 9 10 some sort of gutshot so i think i would fo reraised had he bet the turn big to commit my hand so he couldnt bluff me but he was smart an checked so now i knew i was niles in front an when the river  8d i actually thought it was a blank. An i threw £100 chip in not as a stopper bet really but as a value bet but in hindsight might of been a bad bet from me as what can he call me wt ? but it gices him the chance to reraise wt air but the check check on the turn made this hand interesting. ill post this bit an then type the next bit ! long winded i know but quite fun as never post ! x

tl;dr


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: titaniumbean on March 21, 2010, 05:48:43 PM
had to post that bit cos as u keep busting my balls an the first 1 i wrote got lost so boo hoo, not sure which 1 was better but firts 1 was more funny ok let me get back to it

Is Frankie helping you write it?



IS IT?


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Mitch on March 21, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Keep it coming, I'm at DTD so will add a bit when I get home.

Oh and hope u don't find the NIT tag insulting ;-) 


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: George2Loose on March 21, 2010, 06:44:23 PM
Don't believe Chara. he had aces full.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: GreekStein on March 21, 2010, 06:54:54 PM
so after 5 secs i threw in the 8 £100 chips in s stlyish manner that oozzed the NUTS an to be honest if anyone had the nuts an u did a survey in the uk they would show big charrra had the NUTS!

LOL! love it


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: NigDawG on March 22, 2010, 01:30:21 AM
lol love you charra


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: The Camel on March 22, 2010, 02:29:54 AM
Liar, liar pants on fire.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Royal Flush on March 22, 2010, 05:08:17 AM
SELL


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: hatthehole on March 22, 2010, 05:21:33 AM
lies make baby jesus cry


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Mitch on March 22, 2010, 05:34:19 AM
Cheers Pete for the extended, uncut, full, detailed, explanation  ;)

For the record, he really did have  Ad Ts as he showed after i had folded. Didnt want to reveal the hand as it obviously has a major impact on how people assess the hand.

Before i posted the hand on here i was thinking to myself that maybe i could have found a call simply due to the way he views my game and especially how he knows i view his. Glad to see the majority of people also pass the hand, even though obviously in this case it wasnt the correct fold. Istill think it would be 95% of the time!

Dont need to really add much more as 'Big Chara' has barely missed a detail. Anyone who has heard him chat can imagine himreading this all back without the need to take a single breath lol.

Only other thing is that i was pretty suprised a couple of people dont raise the river...

I see it as pretty standard in a cash game in this circumstance, especially as he is going to be giving me credit for a bluff here a lot of the time and call me with a bare ace playing the two eights on board and a queen kicker. He's also paying me off with AQ, AK hands and all smaller flushes. Pretty limiting to your game and easy for opponets to get a feel for your hand if your only raising boats here surely!?


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Mitch on March 22, 2010, 05:40:04 AM
Also...


I later got Mitch to stack off wt  8d 9d against my Ad Ac for another £650ish misreading my physical tells causing him to get it in pre ! I obviously  mentally drained him but im sure next time he will teach me a lesson.

  • Tilt    ;grr;


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Sack it off on March 22, 2010, 12:46:34 PM
Two points I'd like to add;

IMO raise folding is ok.

Secondly I don't think you should start making loose calls because of how you think he thinks you perceive him.
If you get into those kind of realms of thinking you go beyond being a smart player and just become spewy.

You have made the most profitable move and forced your opponent to make an unprofitable bluff against you, as you know yourself the 2nd nut flush will be the bottom of your raising range on this river so the majority of the time you snap and he mucks.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Royal Flush on March 22, 2010, 01:36:24 PM
wow he played this hand ridic bad


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: The Camel on March 22, 2010, 01:51:04 PM
This whole thread is clearly a well planned attempt by Pete to get people to call him when he river shoves with the nuts.

wp gg.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: EvilPie on March 22, 2010, 03:01:08 PM
I've only played Pete a couple of times and both were deepstack slow mtts.

Both times I've seen him take a very similar line and I was 100% convinced he had AA or QQ here.

He slow plays the hell out of big pairs and squeezes value out of them on every street from what I've seen.

I pass this hand 100% of the time. (I probably pass it pre actually but that's just me)

Also I hate the raise on the river. You say he's a nit so what do you expect him to call you with?

If you raise the river you should have had an easy decision here when he shoved on you because you should've pre planned on this being a possibility.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Cf on March 22, 2010, 03:36:44 PM
Might be repeating what others have said but...

Firstly I fold pre. I don't mind 3betting light in certain spots but against a nitty player opening from ep I think it's asking for trouble.

Like the flop bet, though I'm somewhat concerned when it's called. Expecting to see a decent A or 22. Not especially concerned about AA/QQ due to your preflop read - don't know the player but i imagine most would at least consider raising those hands.

Checking the turn is good. We're prob not good at this point and not sure we can get him to fold if he has one of the hands we think he has. Take the free river card.

On the river we hit our flush, but the board pairs. Well, i'm only really concerned about 22 at this point. Guess he might have had AdXd also. But once he bets I think we can only call. If he was getting trappy with 22 then he's got there. And if he was just calling and trying to see a river card with AdXd then that's got there. I don't see much value in raising - Ax can't really call, and boats/nf will just push over you putting you in this horrible spot. You might get some extra value from small flushes but that's about it.

As played I fold, unless I have some reason to think he's bluffing me.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Cf on March 22, 2010, 03:40:13 PM
Also, get the impression people might be trying to level themselves a bit too much in this thread. I don't consider this hand to be all that complex myself...


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: RichEO on March 22, 2010, 03:46:58 PM
Peter Shambles Charalambous manages to accidentally bluff a hand.

And how you get any action is unbelievable. He plays 5 hands a night (absolute maximum). So why is anyone 3 betting him ever. Just get on with the next hand!


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: TheChipPrince on March 22, 2010, 04:09:45 PM
I had amassed £80,000 in live touneys in the last year an still came out losing?

u lot are so funny, oh well ill let the bankroll an results do the talking.............Gl

;)


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: kinboshi on March 22, 2010, 04:27:47 PM
Only played wt Mitch 1 time before an hes a really nice guy...

Gave up there.  Obviously a misread.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: EvilPie on March 22, 2010, 04:30:48 PM
Only played wt Mitch 1 time before an hes a really nice guy...

Gave up there.  Haven't got a clue how to play poker and couldn't possibly help.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: titaniumbean on March 22, 2010, 04:35:56 PM
Only played wt Mitch 1 time before an hes a really nice guy...

Gave up there.  Obviously a misread.


Only played wt Mitch 1 time before an hes a really nice guy...

Gave up there.  Haven't got a clue how to play poker and couldn't possibly help.



rotflmfao  ;applause;


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Mitch on March 22, 2010, 06:17:42 PM
wow he played this hand ridic bad

Why do you always make these 5 or 6 word comments and then never add anything more to give a reason why? Or is your word just gospel?

Also I hate the raise on the river. You say he's a nit so what do you expect him to call you with?

Ok im not going to use the term nit anymore because i think Petes becoming personally offended by the term. Hes a very solid player, but thats doesnt mean that when he gets into a hand with AQ AK, J10 of diamonds (and makes a flush) he is just going to pass because ive raised him on the river. The tightness is mainly in his hand selection pre and his non willingness enter a pot with raggy hands or connectors when not quite getting a good price etc etc. I guarentee, and Pete will probably confirm, that if he has any of these hands in this situation he is 100% paying me off when i raise the river.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: The Camel on March 22, 2010, 06:23:12 PM
I can't speak for anybody else obv, but I consider calling someone a nit is a compliment.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: George2Loose on March 22, 2010, 06:24:23 PM
I can't speak for anybody else obv, but I consider calling someone a nit is a compliment.

I disagree with this statement


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: EvilPie on March 22, 2010, 06:24:35 PM

Also I hate the raise on the river. You say he's a nit so what do you expect him to call you with?

Ok im not going to use the term nit anymore because i think Petes becoming personally offended by the term. Hes a very solid player, but thats doesnt mean that when he gets into a hand with AQ AK, J10 of diamonds (and makes a flush) he is just going to pass because ive raised him on the river. The tightness is mainly in his hand selection pre and his non willingness enter a pot with raggy hands or connectors when not quite getting a good price etc etc. I guarentee, and Pete will probably confirm, that if he has any of these hands in this situation he is 100% paying me off when i raise the river.

Do you think he bets the river though or just check / calls?

And Pete, the term nit isn't offensive. At least it isn't when I use it. Just means that you aren't a lunatic.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: EvilPie on March 22, 2010, 06:26:19 PM
I can't speak for anybody else obv, but I consider calling someone a nit is a compliment.

If I use the term nit it isn't a compliment. It also isn't intended as an offence.

It just describes the way they play in a very vague manner meaning that they aren't playing crap hands or spewing too often.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Mitch on March 22, 2010, 06:31:18 PM

Also I hate the raise on the river. You say he's a nit so what do you expect him to call you with?

Ok im not going to use the term nit anymore because i think Petes becoming personally offended by the term. Hes a very solid player, but thats doesnt mean that when he gets into a hand with AQ AK, J10 of diamonds (and makes a flush) he is just going to pass because ive raised him on the river. The tightness is mainly in his hand selection pre and his non willingness enter a pot with raggy hands or connectors when not quite getting a good price etc etc. I guarentee, and Pete will probably confirm, that if he has any of these hands in this situation he is 100% paying me off when i raise the river.

Do you think he bets the river though or just check / calls?

And Pete, the term nit isn't offensive. At least it isn't when I use it. Just means that you aren't a lunatic.

I think he plays it the same tbh. Once i check the turn he knows i dont have a huge hand as I dont seem to be worried about protecting it against a draw or getting max valuefrom it by betting.

He doesnt want to be checking top 2 and me to knuckle behind with A10 when im probably going to pay off a small value bet, and especially not if he has a smaller flush.

Oh, and I know 'nit' isnt insulting but he seems to be PUTTING IT IN CAPITALS every time he writes it! Just wanted to make sure.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: GreekStein on March 22, 2010, 07:32:01 PM
you around all week charararanitalambous?


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: byronkincaid on March 22, 2010, 10:56:30 PM
Quote
When the flop came i was 90% certain i was in front an elected to check call even though 4 a split second i almost raised but i thought out of postion ill play a small pot as i had a rough idea how his betting would go if he didnt have a real hand. The turn came   an i didnt really like this card as my range of hands i put him on preflop were mid cards like 9 j or 10 j or 9 10 some sort of gutshot so i think i would fo reraised had he bet the turn big to commit my hand so he couldnt bluff me

me confused



Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: Royal Flush on March 23, 2010, 05:03:28 AM
wow he played this hand ridic bad

Why do you always make these 5 or 6 word comments and then never add anything more to give a reason why? Or is your word just gospel?

Well he thinks you are bluffing and he has a bluff catcher then he then does some tiny 3b all in!!?!!

The best thing is he posts up on here how bad that is and that he should check call, lol, surely should bet call if you going to be river raise bluffing?

Obv the rest of the hand is not great.


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: ScottishRaider on April 05, 2010, 06:13:24 PM
personally i have only played with pete twice and both times in mtt's but i have seen him make some really marginal moves in slow mtt's that are not exactly what i would call nitty

at the monte carlo at dtd in dec blinds 200/400 he opened and got one call (me) then 4 bet shoves a 60K+ stack with A6 on a board or A 4 5


Title: Re: £2/£5 NLH Live Pukeable river spot vs Nit.
Post by: AlexMartin on April 06, 2010, 06:28:02 PM
call, coz if he shows me a bluff ill be on tilt and his line makes close to zero sense.