poker news
blondepedia
card room
tournament schedule
uk results
galleries
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
May 08, 2024, 05:53:09 AM
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Search:
Advanced search
Order through Amazon and help blonde Poker
2272669
Posts in
66756
Topics by
16723
Members
Latest Member:
Aledkanny
blonde poker forum
Poker Forums
The Rail
Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
4
5
...
7
Author
Topic: Live Streams - Hole cards or not? (Read 13358 times)
The Camel
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 17523
Under my tree, being a troll.
Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
on:
September 24, 2012, 04:01:33 PM »
Last week I got in a bit of a tizzy about showing my hole cards on a live stream at the EPO.
Although the stream was delayed by 30 minutes, the players at the table were constantly checking their iphones to find out what players held in specific hands.
I think this is fundamentally wrong.
I don't want the other players to know what I rock I am.
Showing of cards totally changes the game imo and shouldn't be allowed.
I have added two polls, one for the players and one for the viewers to see if they have the same issues I do.
While I don't expect to change the minds of Fox or Grosvenor, I would hope if enough people agree with me, DTD might change their minds about showing hole cards in their live streams.
Logged
Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
smashedagain
moderator of moderators
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 12522
if you are gonna kiss arse you have to do it right
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #1 on:
September 24, 2012, 04:35:24 PM »
I commend you for having the balls to go against the organisers and not show your cards Keith. Having spent so much money on the equipment I can't honestly see Dtd not showing the cards tho. I just don't think it makes for good viewing for joe public either.
Logged
[ ] ept title
[ ] wpt title
[ ] wsop braclet
[X] mickey mouse hoodies
The Camel
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 17523
Under my tree, being a troll.
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #2 on:
September 24, 2012, 05:30:36 PM »
Quote from: smashedagain on September 24, 2012, 04:35:24 PM
I commend you for having the balls to go against the organisers and not show your cards Keith. Having spent so much money on the equipment I can't honestly see Dtd not showing the cards tho. I just don't think it makes for good viewing for joe public either.
I think the thing that is being forgotten is the players and the integrity of the tournament are much more important than a live stream.
We are playing for tens of thousands of pounds and the showing of cards definitely affects the flow and course of the game.
Ridiculous really.
Logged
Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
tikay
Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: I am a geek!!
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #3 on:
September 24, 2012, 05:32:40 PM »
Quote from: The Camel on September 24, 2012, 05:30:36 PM
Quote from: smashedagain on September 24, 2012, 04:35:24 PM
I commend you for having the balls to go against the organisers and not show your cards Keith. Having spent so much money on the equipment I can't honestly see Dtd not showing the cards tho. I just don't think it makes for good viewing for joe public either.
I think the thing that is being forgotten is the players and the integrity of the tournament are much more important than a live stream.
We are playing for tens of thousands of pounds and the showing of cards definitely affects the flow and course of the game.
Ridiculous really.
....and the PLAYERS have paid an Entry Fee, + the Reg Fee, & get zilch back in recompense, whilst the stream viewers have paid nothing. I believe the players have "rights", whilst the stream viewers do not.
Logged
All details of the 2016 Vegas Staking Adventure can be found via this link -
http://bit.ly/1pdQZDY
(copyright Anthony James Kendall, 2016).
action man
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 10673
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #4 on:
September 24, 2012, 05:33:20 PM »
the viewers probably put more in the pool than the players
Logged
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: I am a geek!!
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #5 on:
September 24, 2012, 05:54:19 PM »
I think that as long as the organisers take the necessary steps to protect the integrity of the game, and make sure the players on a feature are all on the same footing, then its fine
So communication devices need to be taken off players until they are knocked out from a final feature table or players sequestered throughout
DTD does this. Furthermore you cannot access the stream if you are on the premises, whether on the rail or the table with the exception of a locked commentary room in an office
If this is not done, then the only solution is to show the stream in the club for all feature player tables to see (if hole cards are still being shown)
My problem with the EPO was that some players had info others did not
DTD have spent extensively on stream equipment but don't have the problems experienced last week in my opinion
Logged
My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
Boba Fett
Doctor of Thugonomics
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 2925
Pain is Temporary!
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #6 on:
September 24, 2012, 05:57:08 PM »
Could always just go back to the days where people show up to play poker tournaments and nobody in the world outside of the casino cares whats going on
Logged
Ya gotta crawl before ya ball!
Dewi_cool
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 9978
Dusk Till Dawn - It's like going home
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #7 on:
September 24, 2012, 06:11:15 PM »
Don't agree with showing hole cards, & I much prefer watching streams without too.
Logged
The very last hand of the night goes to Dewi James, who finds ACES and talks Raymond O’Mahoney into calling his all-in preflop bet of 15k. “If I had AQ, I’d call!” says Dewi. Raymond calls holding pocket 66’s.
smashedagain
moderator of moderators
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 12522
if you are gonna kiss arse you have to do it right
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #8 on:
September 24, 2012, 06:18:15 PM »
Quote from: TightEnd on September 24, 2012, 05:54:19 PM
I think that as long as the organisers take the necessary steps to protect the integrity of the game, and make sure the players on a feature are all on the same footing, then its fine
So communication devices need to be taken off players until they are knocked out from a final feature table or players sequestered throughout
DTD does this. Furthermore you cannot access the stream if you are on the premises, whether on the rail or the table with the exception of a locked commentary room in an office
If this is not done, then the only solution is to show the stream in the club for all feature player tables to see (if hole cards are still being shown)
My problem with the EPO was that some players had info others did not
DTD have spent extensively on stream equipment but don't have the problems experienced last week in my opinion
mates are still passing information onto players whilst they are railing at Dtd. They just have a mate at home watching who tells the railer the score who then relays the information to the player. They don't even wait for the break to do this and quite often you see players not involved in the hand out if their seats and on the rail chatting to mates.
Dtd do take more steps than most to preserve the integrity of the game but unless they have a seperate room for the feed table, what can they do?
Logged
[ ] ept title
[ ] wpt title
[ ] wsop braclet
[X] mickey mouse hoodies
CHIPPYMAN
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1808
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #9 on:
September 24, 2012, 06:51:05 PM »
Quote from: tikay on September 24, 2012, 05:32:40 PM
Quote from: The Camel on September 24, 2012, 05:30:36 PM
Quote from: smashedagain on September 24, 2012, 04:35:24 PM
I commend you for having the balls to go against the organisers and not show your cards Keith. Having spent so much money on the equipment I can't honestly see Dtd not showing the cards tho. I just don't think it makes for good viewing for joe public either.
I think the thing that is being forgotten is the players and the integrity of the tournament are much more important than a live stream.
We are playing for tens of thousands of pounds and the showing of cards definitely affects the flow and course of the game.
Ridiculous really.
....and the PLAYERS have paid an Entry Fee, + the Reg Fee, & get zilch back in recompense, whilst the stream viewers have paid nothing. I believe the players have "rights", whilst the stream viewers do not.
Logged
cambridgealex
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 14876
#lovethegame
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #10 on:
September 24, 2012, 06:57:28 PM »
It doesn't bother me one bit.
Streams without hole cards require really good commentators to keep it interesting in my opinion, and they seem to be hard to come by these days.
Logged
Poker goals:
[ ] 7 figure score
[X] 8 figure score
nirvana
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 7804
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #11 on:
September 24, 2012, 07:00:19 PM »
Personally, I don't really care either way,
So few hands are played I'm not sure there's enough data to turn this into usable information.. even for very clev people.
Pretty sure most of us are already stereotyped by our competition, to a point where the actual cards won't change initial perceptions all that much
Logged
sola virtus nobilitat
h
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1452
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #12 on:
September 24, 2012, 07:05:14 PM »
Cards should not be shown IMO
"DTD have spent extensively on stream equipment but don't have the problems experienced last week in my opinion "
the same problem just less obvious IMO with hole cards shown your actions can potentially be viewed analysed by a team of players and feed back to your opponents
The Camel exercised a choice chose not to show
with the technology DTD uses i am not sure a player could opt out of showing
Logged
skolsuper
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 1510
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #13 on:
September 24, 2012, 08:00:22 PM »
Quote from: nirvana on September 24, 2012, 07:00:19 PM
Personally, I don't really care either way,
So few hands are played I'm not sure there's enough data to turn this into usable information.. even for very clev people.
Pretty sure most of us are already stereotyped by our competition, to a point where the actual cards won't change initial perceptions all that much
agree with nirvana as usual
Logged
luckyblind
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 741
Why did I call myself lucky?
Re: Live Streams - Hole cards or not?
«
Reply #14 on:
September 24, 2012, 08:17:35 PM »
Interesting debate!
Fair play to you Keith for getting away with not showing your cards, did you actually sign a waiver that said you were required to at the beginning of the tournament?
I have to say that if it was at a tournament that I organised and you signed the waiver you would have been first warned, if you carried on given a penalty and if you persisted after that disqualified. As far I see it is the same as breaking any other tournament rule.
We do get asked occasionally by players who are about to sign these at our events if we will enforce it (we would) and I can only recall one occasion that the player decided not to play rather than sign it.
Personally I think there are better ways to make a live stream more interesting than showing hole cards. However when we live stream an event we do so at the organisers spec and if that includes having hole cards on a delay then that is their choice. The only event that we organise as well as stream that has hole cards is Goliath and I think that is the kind of event it should be reserved for. I also think that events shown live to a massive audience on TV or like the WSOP benefit but I think they should be filmed in a segregated area with no access to the stream or outside world. If you are not segregating then everybody should have access to the stream as it is broadcast. We have displayed a delayed stream in the room before and it went down very well.
At the end of the day the usual rules of supply & demand will come into effect and hole-cards will only be not shown on a regular basis if a) the players stop turning up because of it or b) the organisers decide it is not worth the cost.
In the UK at the moment players have the best choice they have ever had. With the likes of Dtd, Grosvenor, Genting and Pokerstars all either guaranteeing or adding money to events there has never been so much value or choice for the players. This will only stay if the organisers feel that the cost/risks are worth it. Part of the reason they do it is for exposure and live streams are part of exploiting this. Some obviously feel that hole-cards make a big difference, some not. I am sure debates like this will help along the way to how things develop for the future but to say players get nothing in return is not looking at the big picture. There are no games without someone to organise them.
Alex's point is very relevant and I am sure one of the reasons why hole-cards are so popular. A good commentator costs a lot more than having the hole-card technology...
DtD use the same technology as the EPO & ourselves, to not show your cards you just have to make sure they do not go on the RFID reader in front of you.
Logged
D 4 Events - Deepstack & Short-Handed Poker Festivals across Europe. €500 main events with €300 & €200 Side Events.
Great Structures, Fantastic Venues, Affordable entry fees.
PM for more info.
Pages:
[
1
]
2
3
4
5
...
7
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Poker Forums
-----------------------------
=> The Rail
===> past blonde Bashes
===> Best of blonde
=> Diaries and Blogs
=> Live Tournament Updates
=> Live poker
===> Live Tournament Staking
=> Internet Poker
===> Online Tournament Staking
=> Poker Hand Analysis
===> Learning Centre
-----------------------------
Community Forums
-----------------------------
=> The Lounge
=> Betting Tips and Sport Discussion
Loading...