AmayaStars

[arbboy]

Do other companies like tescos have forums with people ranting about prices increases and lobbyists organising strikes etc?

Bizarre really. You're using a product / service and making money from other users of that service. The owners have put their prices up as is their right. Quit your moaning ffs lol you ain't gonna change their mind no matter how many spreadsheets and graphs you throw at them.

Stars start charging 30% rake on live tournaments. They post bullshit stats showing they still have lowest rake overall. Negreanu assures you it will be a good thing for poker. Reckon you might have a different opinion then.

You should be able to argue with the competition commission if they were using monopoly pricing.  But isn't the issue that some of the pricing on other sites has always been terrible, so people played on stars as they were the only sensibe ones.  ipoker raked 10% on turbo/hyper STTs  years ago.  Other sites have been raking rebuys, and so on.  So whilst some of the stats may be dubious, I don't think they are pricing so badly that they are too far away from the oppostion.  So even though theoretically they are taking advantage of their position, any case seems fraught with difficulty.  

I guess we just have to avoid the games we can't beat such as hold em hyper MTTs for me.  Cash NLO8 was always near unbeatable unless you refused action vs anyone but the biggest fish.  Or you could find some smaller sites, but even then, the pricing is so bad on the other sites that as soon as a couple of solid regs show up, the game becomes unbeatable there too.

The other thing is that we tend to have a bunch of people wanting to make big profits from the game complaining about other people wanting to make big profits from the game.  

Might just have to look back at the time I made a lot of money from online poker like the time when I could get drunk without feeling bloody awful, or the time I could go out without having to check 3 people's diaries, or the time I could run hundred yards without feeling like tmy chest was about to explode Alien style. Those times were good.  

Doobs crushes it.

[cambridgealex]

Do other companies like tescos have forums with people ranting about prices increases and lobbyists organising strikes etc?

Bizarre really. You're using a product / service and making money from other users of that service. The owners have put their prices up as is their right. Quit your moaning ffs lol you ain't gonna change their mind no matter how many spreadsheets and graphs you throw at them.

Imagine you were living in Nottingham and Rob Yong told you that as long as you play 8 hours a day 5 days a week he would give you 100,000 at the end of the year and then an extra 15k/month in the following year. In November he says sorry I'm not giving that 15k even though you met the requirements but don't worry I had it in small print.

Meanwhile there was Skallie who came out and tried to calm you all down, telling you that Rob was going to spend it on some really  stuff that he couldn't tell you about but would bring in so many people. But it should be around in March and it would really help your bottom line.

DTD then run a tournament with their most ever players making the most money they've ever made off s tournament, Robs work of making a card room in Atlantic city finally goes through on the same day as the huge tournament. The very next day Rob announces a new rule that everytime you pull up more money he's going to charge you a 10% vig meaning your games are unbeatable (many many games stars offers are completely unbeatable including now rebuys, hyper as well as micro stakes cash games)

Skallie then comes out and defends the changes and tells you how the casino in Atlantic city, despite never likely to change you will make the company a tonne of money and thus DTD will do better and thus you should be happy.

You have two options.

1) you quietly leave and start playing in Gala Nottingham, the biggest games are 1-1 but the card room manager is really nice and he's trying to make a difference, every few weeks he puts on a promotion and usually adds a bunch but in general, the tables are old, the cards are old, there's a draft coming in through the door and it's in a pretty rough area where there is history of money being stolen or disappearing and the police doing nothing

2) you protest, you strike and you try to reverse the changes. You know that previously Rob has done similar kind of tactics but when all the players came together and protested he changed these exact changes around.

I'm really glad you used that analogy!

I lived in Nottingham for several years as you know playing the games there on a regular basis. I cannot go into details but certain changes were made that were in the interest of the recreational players that meant it was no longer best for me to stay there.

Did I rant and rave about it on social media and kick up a fuss? No, I accepted it, understood it and moved on. I went to Macau, Barcelona and ultimately now London.

(NB the point about the 2year VIP system being removed halfway through is obviously different and everyone accepts that that is paramount to theft #wecouldhavedone more etc)

[cambridgealex]

Do other companies like tescos have forums with people ranting about prices increases and lobbyists organising strikes etc?

Bizarre really. You're using a product / service and making money from other users of that service. The owners have put their prices up as is their right. Quit your moaning ffs lol you ain't gonna change their mind no matter how many spreadsheets and graphs you throw at them.

Stars start charging 30% rake on live tournaments. They post bullshit stats showing they still have lowest rake overall. Negreanu assures you it will be a good thing for poker. Reckon you might have a different opinion then.

Again, I'd think "meh that's annoying I used to enjoy those tournaments" and then I'd just play the WPT tour, or just play cash games.

[cambridgealex]

Must've missed the part where Amaya bought Party, 888 and iPoker.

Think it's pretty safe to say, in terms of software, these companies are a long way behind. Sorta like comparing Tesco to Aldi, it performs the same function but with less variety and not as well. Full Tilt was the site that could really go after the stars player base, but not anymore.

Tesco charge more than Aldi for this huge range of variety in their stores.  Why shouldn't Stars do the same?

This. Tesco has the better product so charges more. It's basic economics. You still have a choice of going to Aldi.

And no-one is stopping these companies getting better software etc. Rob is taking Party Poker in the right direction, putting up big guarantees, making decisions in the interest of the players, decisions that no other operator would dream of (I'm thinking about 100k gte that Rob ran the other week despite it being postponed for over an hour and everyone thinking it had been cancelled).

You guys need to start supporting and promoting these sites rather than moaning about PokerStars.

[MC]

Do other companies like tescos have forums with people ranting about prices increases and lobbyists organising strikes etc?

Bizarre really. You're using a product / service and making money from other users of that service. The owners have put their prices up as is their right. Quit your moaning ffs lol you ain't gonna change their mind no matter how many spreadsheets and graphs you throw at them.

Stars start charging 30% rake on live tournaments. They post bullshit stats showing they still have lowest rake overall. Negreanu assures you it will be a good thing for poker. Reckon you might have a different opinion then.

Again, I'd think "meh that's annoying I used to enjoy those tournaments" and then I'd just play the WPT tour, or just play cash games.

What if your only alternative was the Bognor Regis Poker Tour with terrible dealers and small fields? Still just 'meh'? Still 'lol at complaining'?

I play on 888 and Party, am I allowed to voice my displeasure at what I perceive to be PokerStars mismanagement now? Or no?

What about if I happen to be on a panel of MTT players that helped to create a whole new MTT schedule on PokerStars without knowing that these changes were going to happen just a few weeks before it goes live? Is it ok then?

[rfgqqabc]

The guy who handles the scoop feedback is upset players are kicking off now the schedule we gave feedback on has gone down hill. The players choice scoop is ultradeep hyper turbo... Pretty oi in terms of willingness to complain now, back to the Uzbeki 4card games for me.

[cambridgealex]

Do other companies like tescos have forums with people ranting about prices increases and lobbyists organising strikes etc?

Bizarre really. You're using a product / service and making money from other users of that service. The owners have put their prices up as is their right. Quit your moaning ffs lol you ain't gonna change their mind no matter how many spreadsheets and graphs you throw at them.

Stars start charging 30% rake on live tournaments. They post bullshit stats showing they still have lowest rake overall. Negreanu assures you it will be a good thing for poker. Reckon you might have a different opinion then.

Again, I'd think "meh that's annoying I used to enjoy those tournaments" and then I'd just play the WPT tour, or just play cash games.

What if your only alternative was the Bognor Regis Poker Tour with terrible dealers and small fields? Still just 'meh'? Still 'lol at complaining'?

I play on 888 and Party, am I allowed to voice my displeasure at what I perceive to be PokerStars mismanagement now? Or no?

What about if I happen to be on a panel of MTT players that helped to create a whole new MTT schedule on PokerStars without knowing that these changes were going to happen just a few weeks before it goes live? Is it ok then?

I'm just saying it's pointless. They're taking the company in a certain direction and no matter how many forum threads, Facebook posts and organised strikes - they're not going to change their mind.

And it's not just a case of Pokerstars or Bognor Regis is it?

PartyPoker just had a schedule of tournaments with 500k gte, 200k, 100k etc. 5k buyin, 1k buyin, 500s, 215s etc etc. 888 has some good stuff on there from what I remember. You think the software's bad? So what, this is your job, put up with it, make it work.

If you worked in the city as a trader part of a huge corporation and they had MacBooks with top of the range City Trader 10.0 software but decided to cut your pay from £100k to £50k. Then a small company down the road started poaching traders from the big boys and paying them £75k but they had Windows 98 and City Trader 2.1 what would you do?

You could stay where you are, and rant and rave about the pay cut. Or you could move down the road, make more money and work with the smaller company and try and help them out with their software, explain that they have a huge opportunity to gain a bigger slice of the market and in the meantime make it work with Windows 98.

Ultimately if Stars lose all its customers then they will have to reconsider and drop their prices anyway.

[Joker_user]

PokerStars are clowns. I have half a year as they do not play

[RickBFA]

By all means kick and scream but it will make no difference. The only real active difference you can make is to vote with your feet and not use the site.

Like in all businesses, nothing stays the same, things change often making margins tighter, increasing the cost of doing business.

This business just happens to be poker.

[bergeroo]

The same people bitching and moaning and cursing on social media yesterday are selling action for the Super Tuesday today...

[pleno1]

Hopefully they're withdrawing 100,000$+ too

[verndog158]

wont it go in circles anyway? all the regs moan/ complain/ take their business elsewhere etc. all the recs and fish stay, fields become softer, and then all the regs come back in 6 months etc?

[tikay]

The problem u have is number 2 will never happen because all the moaners will be back on there grinding within the week which is why Avaya win.

That's not really true though. I'd say previously stars had around 90% of my action, now they have around 30-40%, the more the other sites improve the more I'll take off stars tables and add other networks. Most regs now are moving tonnes of their volume over to party/888.

Assuming you are not a net depositor - a reasonable assumption, I would suggest - isn't that part of the plan, Patrick?

[pleno1]

No, they have huge debts, huge loans and need money. If regs stop playing they are absolutely done. They have shareholders pressurizing them, asking why prices are going down, wanting answers etc etc.

Anyway, regulars playing tournaments are churning money over again and again, if a fish wins a huge tournament he will withdraw a tonne of it too, regs give it back in higher stakes tournaments/epts etc.

if some reg who plays $40 abi wins the million for 200k, he will play a tonne of volume at higher stakes, if a fish wins, he will play a smallish amount of volume (lose a lot, give money away in few hands) and withdraw a tonne.

The satellites that need to run for the tournaments for their guarantees wont get any runners anymore, they wont run and everything will drop significantly.

If they are trying to gain 5% more money through extra rake then to me they are surely going to lose more than this in oher areas.

[tikay]

No, they have huge debts, huge loans and need money. If regs stop playing they are absolutely done. They have shareholders pressurizing them, asking why prices are going down, wanting answers etc etc.

Anyway, regulars playing tournaments are churning money over again and again, if a fish wins a huge tournament he will withdraw a tonne of it too, regs give it back in higher stakes tournaments/epts etc.

if some reg who plays $40 abi wins the million for 200k, he will play a tonne of volume at higher stakes, if a fish wins, he will play a smallish amount of volume (lose a lot, give money away in few hands) and withdraw a tonne.

The satellites that need to run for the tournaments for their guarantees wont get any runners anymore, they wont run and everything will drop significantly.

If they are trying to gain 5% more money through extra rake then to me they are surely going to lose more than this in oher areas.

I was not making the case either way Patrick, I was saying that a player such as yourself playing less and paying more is exactly their plan.

To be fair, they probably know what they are doing, whether we like to admit it or not.