blonde poker forum

This is today's Poker Quiz on Cardplayer

The suggested answer to the question is: Fold.

I'll leave the justification for why til later

who agrees, who disagrees?


A $10/$20 game. You raise in MP with AhKc after an early player limps. Two later players and the limper call. $95 in pot, four players.

Flop is 9c7d3s

EP checks, you bet and you get one caller

$115 in pot, two players

Turn is Ah, giving you TPTK

You bet, and get raised

There is $175 in pot, and it costs you $20 to call

What do you do

Answer: Fold.

Over to you......................

with odds like that i'm gonna put $20 in regardless of whether i think i'm behind or not

Is this a limit game?

CAll probably. Depends on how much he has left i.e. how much is it going to cost me on the river, am i behind or before the re raiser?

Have to accept sometimes that you have to pay someone off.

Is it limit or no limit?

I'm assuming Matey Boy has made trips or at the very least, but unlikely, has A9. If he knows you've got the ace, why is he raising you unless he's got you beat. Plus you'll most likely face another bet on the river.

The way it reads, it's limit....thus capping your exposure on the river

I wondered how many of you could fold getting pot odds of 9-1?...I don't play a lot of limit, but I'm interested to learn why this is a fold here.

i definately call in limit. No doubt. If he has two pair i have outs which depends on the two pair. If he has trips then fair enough i will pay him the bet. I can't fold here, would like to know why someone can?

I think the assumption is that he has trips and that you're drawing dead, but I'd check/call it down, I can't see him having any other hand than 77,99 or less likely, A9.

Check in the dark for the river, even if it turns out to be an A or K.

i`d call

if he has flopped two pair(i`d be suprised) or trips then i`m paying him off. If its limit then i would be prepared to go with it and i would have expected him to bet the flop.

if its no limit then yes he may make the river a big bet...but on the turn i`m in and see what the river brings.....it may bring trips or 2 pair for me


oooh me head hurts

its not clear if you are in or out of position here.


If i am out of position i will check call.

If i am in position i would re-raise then check the river if i felt i was behind.

Why would u reraise?

If i re-raise i can checkdown for free if i feel the need. Or value bet if he is AQ which is what i think he has here.

If he caps it i know i am dead to a set and can pass.

in any event....folding here doesnt seem to be an option.

Because there are two Ace of hearts in the deck? ... or you are holding a 2 that you thought was an Ace and your name is tikay?

Sood spot smart-arse  ;D

but if he bets the river haven't u lost a bet unnecessarily?

I've never played limit so don't know diddly squat.

Diddly squat is exactly what you have. You've only got king high.

My mistake turn is A spades not A hearts

Here is the justification for the fold:


" When you get raised on the turn, you are almost always beat with one pair. On occasion you are against a tricky player who likes to semi-bluff draws on the expensive street. There is $175 in the pot and it costs you $20 to call. These are pot odds of 9-1. If your opponent is raising on the turn, then the number of outs you have depends on his second pair. If he has Aces over nines, you have three outs (any king). If he has Aces over 7s you have six outs (3 kings, 3 nines). With Aces over treys you have nine outs (each of 3 kings, nines or sevens). So one might conclude that on average you have six outs, which is a 7-1 shot, so you have pot odds to call. However if your opponent does have two pair, you do not know which two pair, and you may lose additional money on the river. Since he cold called your pre flop raise he is more likely to have done this wiith 99,77,33 or A9 than any other holding. Fold"


This is apparently taken from

"Middle Limit Hold Em"by Ciaffone and Brier


and I still don't think it's a fold!!!

what about AQ,AJ,A10?

He's covered that AQ AJ AT scenario with "When you get raised on the turn, you are almost always beat with one pair".

Factor in the chance that you opponent is on a pure bluff and the odds seem even more attractive. It's a call IMHO

Yep, I can't see folding as an option here.  If he has you beat then this time you're just gonna have to pay him off. But there is definately a strong chance of AJ/AQ/A10 so you can't just assume you're behind everytime. I think you're giving the average limit player more respect than they deserve by laying down in this situation.  However, if you know your opponent as a solid player then you might be able to get away from this one at times.  But to the average joe, no chance.

In a tournament I might be inclined to fold and find a better spot to put my chips in, but then it all depends on who I am in the pot against and what the likelyhood of them holding cards that beat me, or on a pure bluff.

But then I wouldn't be in a limit tournament and I'd have either bet the flop big and pot commited myself when betting the ace on the turn, or folded to a big bet :)

Concluding that you are definitley beat on the turn is a bit of wild assumption. If you keep folding to a reraise in this position then people are gonna know they can push you off decent holdings with nowt.

in a limit cash game its an easy call the reraise is just as likey to be a guy making a move with Ax (proberly AQ or AJ) when you raised preflop and on the flop he has you on a PP proberly higher than a 9 so calls looking to move you off your hand on the turn

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Diddly squat is exactly what you have. You've only got king high.
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Surely Top Pair Top kicker, not "king High"

I would definately call here.  Pot odds dictate.  It's limit and not going to make me broke.  If it were NL and I knew him to be solid I might lay it down but even then I think it would be hard to get away from TPTK and pot odds.

No, because in his original example, he had 2 Ah in the deck, which either means a bum deal, new deck, new dealer OR you misread your hand and you actually hold something like K2 not AK :)

But he's editted it now, original is quoted in first page though.

next time i play limit with Ciaffone and Brier i'll raise the turn everytime, but before i do i'll order my ferrari cuz it's EASY money ;D ;D