Another ruling!

[Cf]

I've gotta pretty much agree with phatomch's first answer. in a vacuum there's nothing wrong here, with history maybe there is

Players are obliged to protect the interests of other players at all times in a tournament.  The utg should not ask the question and should be penalised for asking.  The sb should refuse to answer as whatever he says will affect the uncompleted action.  When he answers he should be penalised.

Poker is riddled with scummy ppl - if these two aren't scummy but just ignorant, a penalty will get them to think about poker etiquette.

Indeed. It is the first rule of tournament poker. Both players have failed to do so here.

[joshua002]

Looks good. Fair enough..

[tikay]

UTG, SB, & the Dealer should all be Shot. Plus a 50 Orbit penalty.

[I KNOW IT]

Hand plays out.
SB made a verbal declaration out of turn so its not binding, he may have decided to call /raise instead of folding.
If TD feels something dodgy was going on issue warning/penalty but hand plays out

[vinni]

Nut both of em.

[Simon Galloway]

UTG, SB, & the Dealer should all be Shot. Plus a 50 Orbit penalty.

That has potential.  2 tables out, self deal, on the bubble table B have a mass row and contrive to all get a 50 orbit penalty.

[Simon Galloway]

Oh, and btw, I can't believe some people can't see anything wrong.  It is cheating.  Ignorance isn't a defence.  The BB is entitled to have UTG concerend about further action behind.  When UTG takes away that entitlement, BB has been cheated.

[kinboshi]

Nut both of em.

The voice of reason.

[Longines]

UTG, SB, & the Dealer should all be Shot. Plus a 50 Orbit penalty.

That has potential.  2 tables out, self deal, on the bubble table B have a mass row and contrive to all get a 50 orbit penalty.

Table A contrive to nut table B en masse. Gotta be worth at least 60 orbits.

[#1Instigator]

I'm not quite sure these rules exist. As far as I'm concerned, you should be able to ask anything if you are still in the hand, poker is after all information gathering. Whether it is right, morally, I cannot comment.
Without knowing whether they were mates or collusion or anything, I would say UTG did nothing more than if someone (facing a thousand pound bet) asks his opponent what his holdings were to gain some sort of advantage.
Again, the BB can answer truthfully or lie and it is obviously up to UTG to guess. The BB could have easily have had AA and wanted to induce a call? So BB (as he is still in the hand) can say whatever he wants and it is up to others to guess. Again, this is a moral issue, some people have none.
Having said the above, I can't see people getting penalized for these kind of action. If they repeat these action as proven collusion, they will then be banned from the premises. But there are tons of people angle-shooting and trys to cheat, or take advantage of others (beginners) that I think are issue much more pressing than these. If people should get a 20min penalty for speech-play, then surely out of turn bets etc should also get 10min everytime?

[I KNOW IT]

I'm not quite sure these rules exist. As far as I'm concerned, you should be able to ask anything if you are still in the hand, poker is after all information gathering. Whether it is right, morally, I cannot comment.
Without knowing whether they were mates or collusion or anything, I would say UTG did nothing more than if someone (facing a thousand pound bet) asks his opponent what his holdings were to gain some sort of advantage.
Again, the BB can answer truthfully or lie and it is obviously up to UTG to guess. The BB could have easily have had AA and wanted to induce a call? So BB (as he is still in the hand) can say whatever he wants and it is up to others to guess. Again, this is a moral issue, some people have none.
Having said the above, I can't see people getting penalized for these kind of action. If they repeat these action as proven collusion, they will then be banned from the premises. But there are tons of people angle-shooting and trys to cheat, or take advantage of others (beginners) that I think are issue much more pressing than these. If people should get a 20min penalty for speech-play, then surely out of turn bets etc should also get 10min everytime?

They should get a warning then a sit out penalty, but rarely is this enforced

[Boba Fett]

UTG, SB, & the Dealer should all be Shot. Plus a 50 Orbit penalty.

Whats the dealer supposed to do here?  Put his hand over the players mouths in split second reaction time?

[doubleup]

As far as I'm concerned, you should be able to ask anything if you are still in the hand, poker is after all information gathering. Whether it is right, morally, I cannot comment.

Why do you think many online sites have introduced chat bans when a player is allin but action is pending?

[Cf]

I'm not quite sure these rules exist. As far as I'm concerned, you should be able to ask anything if you are still in the hand, poker is after all information gathering. Whether it is right, morally, I cannot comment.

If heads up then fine. Otherwise you're potentially damaging a third party. You're not sure the rule exists? As said before, it's pretty much the first rule of tournament poker.

Without knowing whether they were mates or collusion or anything, I would say UTG did nothing more than if someone (facing a thousand pound bet) asks his opponent what his holdings were to gain some sort of advantage.

Again, an advantage that hurts the all-in player in this case.

Again, the BB can answer truthfully or lie and it is obviously up to UTG to guess. The BB could have easily have had AA and wanted to induce a call? So BB (as he is still in the hand) can say whatever he wants and it is up to others to guess. Again, this is a moral issue, some people have none.

BB (assume you mean SB..) can not lie or tell the truth. He can't answer the question and should be reporting the other player for asking it

Having said the above, I can't see people getting penalized for these kind of action. If they repeat these action as proven collusion, they will then be banned from the premises.

So it's ok to do it once? We're only going to penalize it if they do it more than once?

But there are tons of people angle-shooting and trys to cheat, or take advantage of others (beginners) that I think are issue much more pressing than these. If people should get a 20min penalty for speech-play, then surely out of turn bets etc should also get 10min everytime?

When did we say speech play gets a 20min penalty? I said cheating gets a 20 min penalty. Speech play is obviously a part of poker. This case however is crossing the line.

above again

[boldie]

I'm not quite sure these rules exist. As far as I'm concerned, you should be able to ask anything if you are still in the hand, poker is after all information gathering. Whether it is right, morally, I cannot comment.
Without knowing whether they were mates or collusion or anything, I would say UTG did nothing more than if someone (facing a thousand pound bet) asks his opponent what his holdings were to gain some sort of advantage.
Again, the BB can answer truthfully or lie and it is obviously up to UTG to guess. The BB could have easily have had AA and wanted to induce a call? So BB (as he is still in the hand) can say whatever he wants and it is up to others to guess. Again, this is a moral issue, some people have none.
Having said the above, I can't see people getting penalized for these kind of action. If they repeat these action as proven collusion, they will then be banned from the premises. But there are tons of people angle-shooting and trys to cheat, or take advantage of others (beginners) that I think are issue much more pressing than these. If people should get a 20min penalty for speech-play, then surely out of turn bets etc should also get 10min everytime?

As stated by others already...this really is very very wrong.