The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MANTIS01]

I generally think investment in health and social care is pretty chunky in the UK and as a traditional vote winner I’m confident any government wouldn’t strip it back too aggressively

If we accept austerity enforced spending constraints but criticise the balance of spending what specific areas should we have reduced to boost health spending? Education? Defence, Policing? Seems most areas could impact future mortality rates...

[tikay]

Now lets get on with disagreeing but in a nice way please


That would be just great. The thread has become a disgrace recently.

The childish petty squabbles, digs, bullying & bickering is ruining a wonderful thread.

Parliament is being mocked - rightly - for the petty hooting & hollering, but we are no better.   

Let's cut the crap & carry on with the debate as if we were all grown-ups.

TY

[Pokerpops]

Thanks to Doobs for the post on austerity.

Kuku has been banging the “austerity is the root of all devil” drum for months.

The logic and rationale from Doobs blows that blinkered view out of the water.

Good morning

I think he correctly pointed points to uncertainties and he provided another timely reminder to screen for bias even in studies by the BMJ and IPPR. He didn’t blow much out of the water though. Sustained lack of investment in health and social care is still absolutely the prime likely cause on those deaths. The situation will become clearer in time, I have plenty of patience.

We have discussed this one at length before of course, just think how much of a stretch it is to say that reduced investment in health and social care won’t result in additional deaths. There can’t be many things that would have a more obviously correlated relationship.

Everyone. I think it is time we moved on from this particular debate about proving austerity has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths, as it is now obvious to us all the Kuku clearly doesn't understand.

For sure, it can go back to the back burner, while we wait for more data to become available. I owe you an apology for the way in which I discussed it with you as well.

I guess a small qualifier on the apology, we were/still are mostly talking at cross purposes on that subject and it seems nearly all others. That’s no excuse for me to be a prick about it, so I’m happy to apologise.

And I am happy to accept.

Now lets get on with disagreeing but in a nice way please!

I think someone has hacked BigAdz account.  

[Doobs]

Seeing some of the responses on Twitter, you've genuinely got to worry for the safety of politicians if a conclusion isn't forthcoming soon. Folk threatening violence, rape & so on.

Got to remember that Jo Cox was brutally murdered by a Brexit supporting loon. I can see something similar happening if nothing changes.

That is a little far-fetched Aaron.

Maybe it is - But if something similar happened again, would you be really surprised? Some of the twitter responses are awful.

Would you be equally unsurprised if a remoan loon did somethiing bonkers if we leave with no deal?

You're struggling again Arb. I haven't said any such act would be carried out by supporters of either leave or remain.

Another one.

Aarongry. Please, for the sake of proving you don't make it up as you go along, unsavoury as it may be prove that someone on Twitter posted that they would go and rape people, as you allude to, if Brexit doesn't take place.

Ah, you’re struggling just as much as Arb, didn’t think it was possible. Just to try and help you out, I haven’t made claim to any such incident being from any such person with a political alliance.

You can read Twitter - all the comments are there to be seen. I’ll help you a little more, that it’s from both sides. A politician in the commons has just stated that they’re receiving death threats via social media.

If you need any more assistance, I’m happy to help.

So you can't post one example?

Just to prove your point, not one?

I am not on twitter, this is more than enough social m for me.

So please, if they are everywhere, just post one.....please.

Prove your point or stop making up such ridiculousness.

They get taken down pretty quickly, but they are very frequent and even the daily mail accepts they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-racist-abuse-sexist-letters-police-investigation-mp-harassment-national-police-chiefs-a8612351.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617766/amp/Labour-MP-Jess-Phillips-receives-600-rape-threats-just-days-launching-campaign-end-online-sexist-bullying.html

[BigAdz]

Seeing some of the responses on Twitter, you've genuinely got to worry for the safety of politicians if a conclusion isn't forthcoming soon. Folk threatening violence, rape & so on.

Got to remember that Jo Cox was brutally murdered by a Brexit supporting loon. I can see something similar happening if nothing changes.

That is a little far-fetched Aaron.

Maybe it is - But if something similar happened again, would you be really surprised? Some of the twitter responses are awful.

Would you be equally unsurprised if a remoan loon did somethiing bonkers if we leave with no deal?

You're struggling again Arb. I haven't said any such act would be carried out by supporters of either leave or remain.

Another one.

Aarongry. Please, for the sake of proving you don't make it up as you go along, unsavoury as it may be prove that someone on Twitter posted that they would go and rape people, as you allude to, if Brexit doesn't take place.

Ah, you’re struggling just as much as Arb, didn’t think it was possible. Just to try and help you out, I haven’t made claim to any such incident being from any such person with a political alliance.

You can read Twitter - all the comments are there to be seen. I’ll help you a little more, that it’s from both sides. A politician in the commons has just stated that they’re receiving death threats via social media.

If you need any more assistance, I’m happy to help.

So you can't post one example?

Just to prove your point, not one?

I am not on twitter, this is more than enough social m for me.

So please, if they are everywhere, just post one.....please.

Prove your point or stop making up such ridiculousness.

They get taken down pretty quickly, but they are very frequent and even the daily mail accepts they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-racist-abuse-sexist-letters-police-investigation-mp-harassment-national-police-chiefs-a8612351.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617766/amp/Labour-MP-Jess-Phillips-receives-600-rape-threats-just-days-launching-campaign-end-online-sexist-bullying.html

But the one you refer to isn't about Brexit.

I have no doubt there are weirdos out there making such threats, but I'm intruiged how they link it to Brexit and individuals. 

Twitter, or any social media should be deleting those accounts and reporting them to police surely, not just taking down tweets.

[tikay]

Seeing some of the responses on Twitter, you've genuinely got to worry for the safety of politicians if a conclusion isn't forthcoming soon. Folk threatening violence, rape & so on.

Got to remember that Jo Cox was brutally murdered by a Brexit supporting loon. I can see something similar happening if nothing changes.

That is a little far-fetched Aaron.

Maybe it is - But if something similar happened again, would you be really surprised? Some of the twitter responses are awful.

Would you be equally unsurprised if a remoan loon did somethiing bonkers if we leave with no deal?

You're struggling again Arb. I haven't said any such act would be carried out by supporters of either leave or remain.

Another one.

Aarongry. Please, for the sake of proving you don't make it up as you go along, unsavoury as it may be prove that someone on Twitter posted that they would go and rape people, as you allude to, if Brexit doesn't take place.

Ah, you’re struggling just as much as Arb, didn’t think it was possible. Just to try and help you out, I haven’t made claim to any such incident being from any such person with a political alliance.

You can read Twitter - all the comments are there to be seen. I’ll help you a little more, that it’s from both sides. A politician in the commons has just stated that they’re receiving death threats via social media.

If you need any more assistance, I’m happy to help.

So you can't post one example?

Just to prove your point, not one?

I am not on twitter, this is more than enough social m for me.

So please, if they are everywhere, just post one.....please.

Prove your point or stop making up such ridiculousness.

They get taken down pretty quickly, but they are very frequent and even the daily mail accepts they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-racist-abuse-sexist-letters-police-investigation-mp-harassment-national-police-chiefs-a8612351.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617766/amp/Labour-MP-Jess-Phillips-receives-600-rape-threats-just-days-launching-campaign-end-online-sexist-bullying.html

This is a little off-topic, apologies, but what a dreadful piece of shit Lord Sugar is......


https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1171104580802949120

[tikay]

Seeing some of the responses on Twitter, you've genuinely got to worry for the safety of politicians if a conclusion isn't forthcoming soon. Folk threatening violence, rape & so on.

Got to remember that Jo Cox was brutally murdered by a Brexit supporting loon. I can see something similar happening if nothing changes.

That is a little far-fetched Aaron.

Maybe it is - But if something similar happened again, would you be really surprised? Some of the twitter responses are awful.

Would you be equally unsurprised if a remoan loon did somethiing bonkers if we leave with no deal?

You're struggling again Arb. I haven't said any such act would be carried out by supporters of either leave or remain.

Another one.

Aarongry. Please, for the sake of proving you don't make it up as you go along, unsavoury as it may be prove that someone on Twitter posted that they would go and rape people, as you allude to, if Brexit doesn't take place.

Ah, you’re struggling just as much as Arb, didn’t think it was possible. Just to try and help you out, I haven’t made claim to any such incident being from any such person with a political alliance.

You can read Twitter - all the comments are there to be seen. I’ll help you a little more, that it’s from both sides. A politician in the commons has just stated that they’re receiving death threats via social media.

If you need any more assistance, I’m happy to help.

So you can't post one example?

Just to prove your point, not one?

I am not on twitter, this is more than enough social m for me.

So please, if they are everywhere, just post one.....please.

Prove your point or stop making up such ridiculousness.

They get taken down pretty quickly, but they are very frequent and even the daily mail accepts they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-racist-abuse-sexist-letters-police-investigation-mp-harassment-national-police-chiefs-a8612351.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617766/amp/Labour-MP-Jess-Phillips-receives-600-rape-threats-just-days-launching-campaign-end-online-sexist-bullying.html

But the one you refer to isn't about Brexit.

I have no doubt there are weirdos out there making such threats, but I'm intruiged how they link it to Brexit and individuals. 

Twitter, or any social media should be deleting those accounts and reporting them to police surely, not just taking down tweets.

100% this.

[BigAdz]

Seeing some of the responses on Twitter, you've genuinely got to worry for the safety of politicians if a conclusion isn't forthcoming soon. Folk threatening violence, rape & so on.

Got to remember that Jo Cox was brutally murdered by a Brexit supporting loon. I can see something similar happening if nothing changes.

That is a little far-fetched Aaron.

Maybe it is - But if something similar happened again, would you be really surprised? Some of the twitter responses are awful.

Would you be equally unsurprised if a remoan loon did somethiing bonkers if we leave with no deal?

You're struggling again Arb. I haven't said any such act would be carried out by supporters of either leave or remain.

Another one.

Aarongry. Please, for the sake of proving you don't make it up as you go along, unsavoury as it may be prove that someone on Twitter posted that they would go and rape people, as you allude to, if Brexit doesn't take place.

Ah, you’re struggling just as much as Arb, didn’t think it was possible. Just to try and help you out, I haven’t made claim to any such incident being from any such person with a political alliance.

You can read Twitter - all the comments are there to be seen. I’ll help you a little more, that it’s from both sides. A politician in the commons has just stated that they’re receiving death threats via social media.

If you need any more assistance, I’m happy to help.

So you can't post one example?

Just to prove your point, not one?

I am not on twitter, this is more than enough social m for me.

So please, if they are everywhere, just post one.....please.

Prove your point or stop making up such ridiculousness.

They get taken down pretty quickly, but they are very frequent and even the daily mail accepts they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-racist-abuse-sexist-letters-police-investigation-mp-harassment-national-police-chiefs-a8612351.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617766/amp/Labour-MP-Jess-Phillips-receives-600-rape-threats-just-days-launching-campaign-end-online-sexist-bullying.html

This is a little off-topic, apologies, but what a dreadful piece of shit Lord Sugar is......


https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1171104580802949120

At risk of upsetting the boss further, I am interested to know why he has your wrath for this?

Is he not allowed to dislike ? Lets be honest she has put herself at the mercy of us all by being so totally inept when interviewed, she brings it on herself. With power comes something or other etc.

Or is it he shouldn't be allowed to tweet bits of fun, as a figure that people potentially look up to?

If it is the later, calling a person a piece of shit, in your lofty position, is not much better.

[tikay]

Seeing some of the responses on Twitter, you've genuinely got to worry for the safety of politicians if a conclusion isn't forthcoming soon. Folk threatening violence, rape & so on.

Got to remember that Jo Cox was brutally murdered by a Brexit supporting loon. I can see something similar happening if nothing changes.

That is a little far-fetched Aaron.

Maybe it is - But if something similar happened again, would you be really surprised? Some of the twitter responses are awful.

Would you be equally unsurprised if a remoan loon did somethiing bonkers if we leave with no deal?

You're struggling again Arb. I haven't said any such act would be carried out by supporters of either leave or remain.

Another one.

Aarongry. Please, for the sake of proving you don't make it up as you go along, unsavoury as it may be prove that someone on Twitter posted that they would go and rape people, as you allude to, if Brexit doesn't take place.

Ah, you’re struggling just as much as Arb, didn’t think it was possible. Just to try and help you out, I haven’t made claim to any such incident being from any such person with a political alliance.

You can read Twitter - all the comments are there to be seen. I’ll help you a little more, that it’s from both sides. A politician in the commons has just stated that they’re receiving death threats via social media.

If you need any more assistance, I’m happy to help.

So you can't post one example?

Just to prove your point, not one?

I am not on twitter, this is more than enough social m for me.

So please, if they are everywhere, just post one.....please.

Prove your point or stop making up such ridiculousness.

They get taken down pretty quickly, but they are very frequent and even the daily mail accepts they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-racist-abuse-sexist-letters-police-investigation-mp-harassment-national-police-chiefs-a8612351.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617766/amp/Labour-MP-Jess-Phillips-receives-600-rape-threats-just-days-launching-campaign-end-online-sexist-bullying.html

This is a little off-topic, apologies, but what a dreadful piece of shit Lord Sugar is......


https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1171104580802949120

At risk of upsetting the boss further, I am interested to know why he has your wrath for this?

Is he not allowed to dislike ? Lets be honest she has put herself at the mercy of us all by being so totally inept when interviewed, she brings it on herself. With power comes something or other etc.

Or is it he shouldn't be allowed to tweet bits of fun, as a figure that people potentially look up to?

If it is the later, calling a person a piece of shit, in your lofty position, is not much better.

It incurs my displeasure, rather than wrath, as it's clearly bullying of someone who is no match for him when debating, it's a 6th former v a newbie. There's nothing remotely likeable or edifying about clever folks - usually with enlarged egos - bullying those less endowed with debating skills.

For every action there's a reaction though, & I quite enjoyed this on Lord Sugar's Twitter feed;

Click to see full-size image.

 

[typhoon13]

People change their minds and voice about it on various topics everyday.....pretty standard that

[BigAdz]

Seeing some of the responses on Twitter, you've genuinely got to worry for the safety of politicians if a conclusion isn't forthcoming soon. Folk threatening violence, rape & so on.

Got to remember that Jo Cox was brutally murdered by a Brexit supporting loon. I can see something similar happening if nothing changes.

That is a little far-fetched Aaron.

Maybe it is - But if something similar happened again, would you be really surprised? Some of the twitter responses are awful.

Would you be equally unsurprised if a remoan loon did somethiing bonkers if we leave with no deal?

You're struggling again Arb. I haven't said any such act would be carried out by supporters of either leave or remain.

Another one.

Aarongry. Please, for the sake of proving you don't make it up as you go along, unsavoury as it may be prove that someone on Twitter posted that they would go and rape people, as you allude to, if Brexit doesn't take place.

Ah, you’re struggling just as much as Arb, didn’t think it was possible. Just to try and help you out, I haven’t made claim to any such incident being from any such person with a political alliance.

You can read Twitter - all the comments are there to be seen. I’ll help you a little more, that it’s from both sides. A politician in the commons has just stated that they’re receiving death threats via social media.

If you need any more assistance, I’m happy to help.

So you can't post one example?

Just to prove your point, not one?

I am not on twitter, this is more than enough social m for me.

So please, if they are everywhere, just post one.....please.

Prove your point or stop making up such ridiculousness.

They get taken down pretty quickly, but they are very frequent and even the daily mail accepts they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-racist-abuse-sexist-letters-police-investigation-mp-harassment-national-police-chiefs-a8612351.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617766/amp/Labour-MP-Jess-Phillips-receives-600-rape-threats-just-days-launching-campaign-end-online-sexist-bullying.html

This is a little off-topic, apologies, but what a dreadful piece of shit Lord Sugar is......


https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1171104580802949120

At risk of upsetting the boss further, I am interested to know why he has your wrath for this?

Is he not allowed to dislike ? Lets be honest she has put herself at the mercy of us all by being so totally inept when interviewed, she brings it on herself. With power comes something or other etc.

Or is it he shouldn't be allowed to tweet bits of fun, as a figure that people potentially look up to?

If it is the later, calling a person a piece of shit, in your lofty position, is not much better.

It incurs my displeasure, rather than wrath, as it's clearly bullying of someone who is no match for him when debating, it's a 6th former v a newbie. There's nothing remotely likeable or edifying about clever folks - usually with enlarged egos - bullying those less endowed with debating skills.

For every action there's a reaction though, & I quite enjoyed this on Lord Sugar's Twitter feed;

Click to see full-size image.

 

I get the analogy but surely as a front bench opposition person she should not be classed as a newbie after all these years?

I only dream of writing a cheque like that, even if it is a bill.

[Pokerpops]

Sorry, are you saying that Cambridge educated, Shadow Cabinet member Duane Abbott isn’t capable of putting across her views against the renowned debating skills of Lord Sir Alan?

[RED-DOG]

For me, the best thing about blonde used to be that it wasn't a microcosm of the wider country. It was a refuge. A place where people had to behave decently and treat each other with respect.

[AdamM]

For me, the best thing about blonde used to be that it wasn't a microcosm of the wider country. It was a refuge. A place where people had to behave decently and treat each other with respect.

.

[Doobs]

Sorry, are you saying that Cambridge educated, Shadow Cabinet member Duane Abbott isn’t capable of putting across her views against the renowned debating skills of Lord Sir Alan?

Given she has been to Cambridge and spent much of her life honing her debating skills, I think she'd be fine.

I get where Tikay is coming from though, Diane Abbott gets an enormous amount of abuse online

https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/09/we-tracked-25688-abusive-tweets-sent-women-mps-half-were-directed-diane-abbott

Given Lord Sugar's position at the BBC, he shouldn't be using his twitter feed to send a series of tweets joining in the pile on (and why now?).  

I think Tikay's description of Sugar as a dreadful piece of shit is a more valid opinion than his view on Abbott's debating skills.