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Author Topic: Poker Bay - My Business Plan. Market Research.  (Read 19416 times)
Acidmouse
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« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2012, 12:07:09 AM »

I think its too niche to be anything more than a non profit making site. Way too much competition from poker sites already providing platforms to sell action to people in their respective communitys to even entertain using a site where they take a cut. Auction a little gimicky imo.
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« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2012, 12:24:32 AM »

not taken into account paying a wage no. I think it'd mean I play less poker, but not much less. I think it'd just eat into the time I spend reading blonde and lazing in bed tbh!

I think there are many people who head into a project with this mentality, and then it just ends up taking over their life.
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« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2012, 12:36:33 AM »

Sort of a cool idea dude but it will never work on the scale you'd like.

There is already chipmeup which has the backing of PokerNews/Tony G and I don't think it's all that successful and find it hard to imagine you topping them.

I think I'd rather just sell on Blonde tbh, seems much easier, and I'm one of your core demographic.
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« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2012, 12:59:20 AM »

not taken into account paying a wage no. I think it'd mean I play less poker, but not much less. I think it'd just eat into the time I spend reading blonde and lazing in bed tbh!

I think there are many people who head into a project with this mentality, and then it just ends up taking over their life.

Yeah pretty much this.  if you don't plan for this to be a serious endeavour then don't do it all.   What happens when your site goes down 10pm when you are at Dtd.

Had a quick look at sagepay.  To use them you need a merchant business bank account.  These are
Very difficult to get for firms in the gaming arena.  Honestly if this is just a hobby I would give up now.  If it is a serious business then be prepared to go through a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy to get it set up legally.
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PizzicatoXev
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« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2012, 01:05:29 AM »

I really think that this has a very small chance of success...

There are many staking sites out there already (many of which are struggling at best) and for it to have a chance of survival you will need to reach a 'critical mass' of both profitable players and stakers fairly quickly or it will just die a death. There is an issue as well that getting a site like this going has a certain 'chicken and the egg' conundrum in the fact that you need profitable horses to attract the stakers and you also need stakers to attract the profitable horses that are willing to sell their action publically.

With the type of setup you are looking to do, its actually quite important that the levels of both horses and stakers is relatively balanced as well or you will end with the situation where either the stakers get annoyed because there is too much competition over the few profitable horses there are floating about, or the players will get annoyed because there isn't enough interest in the action they are selling to to bid up the prices to what they feel is an acceptable price for them to sell at...

not taken into account paying a wage no. I think it'd mean I play less poker, but not much less. I think it'd just eat into the time I spend reading blonde and lazing in bed tbh!

I also think you are vastly under estimating the amount of time this venture could take up with even only a few packages being sold a week... Obviously it will depend on the exact packages being sold but you could easily end up averaging 15 - 20 investors per package and the paperwork involved in sending and recieving all those transfers is gonna take time (and be boring as shit for the few $ you may be making).

Another issue that you may find is that when people bid on these packages some of them like to have the option of sending money online which will usually be Pokerstars transfer as its the largest site etc. Once you start transferring around large amounts of $ with comparably limited play you could easily run into restrictions as far as being able to make transfers and cash out (wether its your own money of TPB's). I believe if you can get an affiliate account and drive traffic to Stars through it you may be able to get away with more, as PTP does but thats not something I have any real or solid info on... I believe that you will need to closely check the t's and c's of Stars TOS and have a long conversation from someone inside the company before you will be able to use your own personal account for these transactions as I am pretty sure that if/when they find out they will at least block your account as they have issues with their IOM licensing which states that all players accounts must be solely for the purpose of playing poker and not carrying on a business etc... I can see a bank taking a dim view of all the transactions as well fwiw unless you get one of their tailored accounts which I am sure will include some kind of anal fee... Paypal may seem like an option but it really isn't as they won't have anything to do with poker or gambling (I nearly lost my paypal account over it and was blocked for 6 months etc while it was investigated).

As for offering insurance against grimming by people who have won from their stakes... Just don't. If there was a profitable way of doing it, it would be done by now. I can show you dozens of threads where this exact thing has been talked about and its just not viable.

The overall size of the staking market is also something that you have to take into account. The staking board here has a little action and there is small amounts of action on several other forums and we obviously have the 'big boys' ala 2+2 and chipmeup etc. I fear for this to have a chance at being profitable your going to have to look at getting an unrealistically significant portion of the market and if you even get close to a significant market share your going to have several other sites pop up mimicking your idea as soon as the ev of the idea goes above absolute zero (people will always think that they can do it better)...

May come up with some more thoughts after am done playing etc but my personal opinion is that you shouldn't put another penny or a minutes time into the idea...

« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 01:07:55 AM by PizzicatoXev » Logged
EvilPie
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« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2012, 01:10:09 AM »

I've been thinking about this while I was out tonight walking the dog. I wanted to consider how it might affect me as a staker and also as a person who sells shares on occasion.

As a staker I don't think I'd ever use the site. I only stake through blonde as a community thing and also a select few friends (mostly ex blondes). I think for me using this auction site would take the fun out of staking. I like the sweats and the rubz and for that you need a community or forum to be involved. Maybe you could tag a forum on to your site or set up some kind of commercial link with an existing forum or forums.

As a seller of shares my main concern would be upsetting the good vibe I have with people who currently buy off me. I have a long term backer but also sometimes sell other shares in more expensive comps. I have a few people who I can just text and I know they'll always take whatever is on offer because I always sell at 1:1. I think I could probably get a little bit more if I auctioned but I wouldn't want to risk upsetting my backers in case something ever went wrong with the auction site and I had ruined what was a well established trust.

With regards to my long term backer I'm pretty sure I'd be better off leaving him and going through the auction site. I'm on a 50/50 deal after MU which suits me just fine. I don't play very often however so I could probably sell off 50% of myself in every comp I play and avoid the MU consideration. Also I might get a mark up thus be even better off. Again though I've built a very good trust with this person and I'd never go against that for the sake of a bit of EV.

Just my personal thoughts on use of the site and why it wouldn't work for me as a recreational player.
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« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2012, 03:23:08 AM »

business plan sounds like it would be in near direct competition with blonde, but without the customer loyalty.

money back guarantee sounds like it could go badly wrong, i don't know if you could get insured against this? , and a large amount of liquid cash would be needed for operating costs,

something could be said for being endorsed/ forging a partnership with blonde on the staking front, with a more complete product as a result

creating partnerships with coaching sites would also help with brand trust and effectively marketing the product to your target market, a by product would be positive word of mouth around the UK poker circuit which would be  vital to the success of your business model

before any of this could take place, extensive market research needs to take place, not just this thread



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GreekStein
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« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2012, 04:18:00 AM »

My thoughts:

The UK Poker community is pretty small and people that I would consider worthwhile staking are unlikely to use your site.

Brammer shifted a $60k package very quickly on blonde with no-one taking any fee. Why should Brammer or buyers be willing to pay to do the same thing on your site when it's not necessary. Even if Blonde stopped allowing staking or decided they too would charge (not likely to happen) these people still have enough contacts that they can sell easily via facebook etc.

What extra is your site going to have that really draws people (buyers and sellers) to use it anymore than the places they currently use to sell action.

People don't seem to find it difficult to sell as it stands. There are some terrible value things that go on blonde so I don't see why people would need to pay for something they can get free.

Chipmeup and sites that the yanks know haven't been terribly successful afaik and they are already established.

Do you have the money to invest to make your site just as well known (competition is only TonyG)  and yet more successful? Just very much doubt the effort/investment is ever going to be worth it.

It did sound cool when I first thought about it, but as a standalone business I don't think it works
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« Reply #68 on: July 29, 2012, 04:21:12 AM »

I like the idea.

Maybe start out small and start up an affiliate with certain players. Offer them a good deal, in return drive trafic to your site.

If you had the reg of a big name you would have countles climbing to buy a piece.

Imagine this was in place for the one drop or something alike. How many people would all chip in there 40 quid to have a piece of a big name.

Make the site a buy only option to begin with? More of a store then an oppurtunity to sell?

Once there is enough interest and traffic then make iot open to people to sell. Maybe once they have bought a certain amount?

just a thought
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« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2012, 05:16:31 AM »

I had quite a few fairly well known pros lined up to be "Team Poker Bay", where they sold all their action on the site for free. That would attract buyers because they are sickos, and they'd be OK using the site as they'd hopefully get higher markup than if they sold elsewhere.

If Bramms 60k package sold at 0.05 higher than the 1.x he sold on blonde, then that's $3k he's made by using the site. I'm sure these players wouldn't mind giving Poker Bay a few hundred bucks in commision/fees for this sort of price difference.

That of course all relys on there being plenty of liquidity in the buyers market of course so prices get high enough for pros to be interested. At the moment, it seems  it's a buyers market-  nothing doesn't sell out, somethings sell out in minutes so that suggests to me that on the whole, people would sell for higher with an auction.

That is not to say I think the business will work, I've read all the replies and I guess I agree with the general consensus that it WON'T, as sad as it makes me.
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« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2012, 05:36:46 AM »


I really think that this has a very small chance of success...

my personal opinion is that you shouldn't put another penny or a minutes time into the idea...



Pizzicato's whole post was very good but these are the two points you should take note of the most.
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« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2012, 05:44:50 AM »


I really think that this has a very small chance of success...

my personal opinion is that you shouldn't put another penny or a minutes time into the idea...



Pizzicato's whole post was very good but these are the two points you should take note of the most.

haha ok thanks!
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Bad Beat
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« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2012, 07:36:25 AM »

not taken into account paying a wage no. I think it'd mean I play less poker, but not much less. I think it'd just eat into the time I spend reading blonde and lazing in bed tbh!

I think there are many people who head into a project with this mentality, and then it just ends up taking over their life.

hmm...wonder who he means...
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George2Loose
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« Reply #73 on: July 29, 2012, 08:11:30 AM »

not taken into account paying a wage no. I think it'd mean I play less poker, but not much less. I think it'd just eat into the time I spend reading blonde and lazing in bed tbh!

I think there are many people who head into a project with this mentality, and then it just ends up taking over their life.

hmm...wonder who he means...

lol
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« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2012, 11:49:29 AM »

regarding the name poker bay -

it's a torrent site for poker shows
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