The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MANTIS01]

A friend of mine use to lead high level negotiations for a multinational IT business.

He said to me years ago, the golden rule of negotiation is to treat your opposite number with respect however the discussions we going and never insult them.

Tusk and the EU leaders this week just ignored that golden rule.

It amplifies the reason people voted to leave to get away from these self serving politicians in Brussels and control our own destiny even if it means short term pain.

+1

I would add that you need to know your opposite number and how they think in order to devise a successful negotiating strategy. In this whole episode the EU have adopted a tough stance that the British were always going to resist. They either don't know us or more likely they are deliberately sticking the boot in. Why would they do that? Hugely questionable motivation for me. Either way it demonstrates very clearly why this union is not right for us. Sure the financial inducements are there and the numbers stack up. Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys . Wow! In fact I'm absolutely relishing the challenge ahead now. Let's go euro fag boys.

The big mistake from Remain and EU is pushing the bulldog into a corner. Ultimately they want a second referendum and the union to remain in tact. So engaging the British public into the concepts and benefits was the right idea. This project fear nonsense and stone cold approach is the opposite of what successful strategy looks like. The reality is way more people vote with their emotions & principles than logic. Call them all stupid, but how stupid is not being able to engage them to get the result you want? I don't think a second referendum changes the result one bit. Little Englander? Yes, that's who we are.

Oh and huge chapter in politics and Labour are MIA. Scandalous.  

[RickBFA]

Wow, that was truly embarrassing to watch.  Theresa May tries to go all "school headmistress" on the naughty children in the EU.

Unfortunately, the whole 'staying in the EEA won't respect the referendum' line is complete bollocks.  She's chosen to make that interpretation from the outset, but the referendum said nothing about the terms of exit.

Using that argument, then she won't be respecting the referendum result unless she gives the NHS £350m a week from March 2019.

I can't believe how much that statement reeked of utter desperation.  Utterly pathetic.

I think that is an extremely harsh assessment Sheriff.

It would have been ten times worse if she had said nothing. They have took the piss all week, the nonsense on social media was outrageous, even EU insiders thought it was bang out of order.

Seems to have had a sensible effect....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45610768

May is toast whatever happens anyway. She knows it, everyone knows it, so in many ways she has nothing to lose by taking a more aggressive approach when needed.

[TightEnd]

meanwhile, If no deal proves even half as bad as many sector specific experts believe it will be, a lot of people seven months from now will be looking back on this period of "NO DEAL BRING IT ON" rhetoric, and wondering how on earth anyone in a position of power thought it was a good idea

[TightEnd]

nailed.

[kukushkin88]

A friend of mine use to lead high level negotiations for a multinational IT business.

He said to me years ago, the golden rule of negotiation is to treat your opposite number with respect however the discussions we going and never insult them.

Tusk and the EU leaders this week just ignored that golden rule.

It amplifies the reason people voted to leave to get away from these self serving politicians in Brussels and control our own destiny even if it means short term pain.

+1

I would add that you need to know your opposite number and how they think in order to devise a successful negotiating strategy. In this whole episode the EU have adopted a tough stance that the British were always going to resist. They either don't know us or more likely they are deliberately sticking the boot in. Why would they do that? Hugely questionable motivation for me. Either way it demonstrates very clearly why this union is not right for us. Sure the financial inducements are there and the numbers stack up. Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys . Wow! In fact I'm absolutely relishing the challenge ahead now. Let's go euro fag boys.

The big mistake from Remain and EU is pushing the bulldog into a corner. Ultimately they want a second referendum and the union to remain in tact. So engaging the British public into the concepts and benefits was the right idea. This project fear nonsense and stone cold approach is the opposite of what successful strategy looks like. The reality is way more people vote with their emotions & principles than logic. Call them all stupid, but how stupid is not being able to engage them to get the result you want? I don't think a second referendum changes the result one bit. Little Englander? Yes, that's who we are.

Oh and huge chapter in politics and Labour are MIA. Scandalous.  

Just to clarify..What is it Labour should be doing? They could oppose Brexit. Other than that, they could offer a better Brexit, anything is better than being led out of Europe by the right wing nutter’s, so they are doing that. The other thing they could do is draw attention to how spectacularly the government is fucking this is up, that would be massive overkill though and they quite rightly spend time instead drawing attention to how spectacularly they’re fucking everything else up.

On another note, hilarious that May, Mantis, Rick etc think the EU should take pity on us, seriously wtf? The ‘high level negotiator’ won’t have come across an adversary acting against everyone’s best interests, it’s easier to respect people who don’t do idiotic things.

Of course it’s tragic but it is quite funny that May takes ‘Brexit means Remain’ to Salzburg and gets her arse handed to her, even with the ultra watered down version. Now she has to face Mogg, Jenkin, 🦊 etc.

[TightEnd]

If this really is Labour's position, then the size of the size of the split is going to be magnified significantly. The only hope for Corbyn of minimising the impact was to cut a deal with the Remainers on People's Vote.

"John McDonnell: Labour wants to push ahead with Brexit
On eve of conference, shadow chancellor defies calls for party to promise second referendum"


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/22/john-mcdonnell-labour-wants-to-push-ahead-with-brexit

[RickBFA]

A friend of mine use to lead high level negotiations for a multinational IT business.

He said to me years ago, the golden rule of negotiation is to treat your opposite number with respect however the discussions we going and never insult them.

Tusk and the EU leaders this week just ignored that golden rule.

It amplifies the reason people voted to leave to get away from these self serving politicians in Brussels and control our own destiny even if it means short term pain.

+1

I would add that you need to know your opposite number and how they think in order to devise a successful negotiating strategy. In this whole episode the EU have adopted a tough stance that the British were always going to resist. They either don't know us or more likely they are deliberately sticking the boot in. Why would they do that? Hugely questionable motivation for me. Either way it demonstrates very clearly why this union is not right for us. Sure the financial inducements are there and the numbers stack up. Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys . Wow! In fact I'm absolutely relishing the challenge ahead now. Let's go euro fag boys.

The big mistake from Remain and EU is pushing the bulldog into a corner. Ultimately they want a second referendum and the union to remain in tact. So engaging the British public into the concepts and benefits was the right idea. This project fear nonsense and stone cold approach is the opposite of what successful strategy looks like. The reality is way more people vote with their emotions & principles than logic. Call them all stupid, but how stupid is not being able to engage them to get the result you want? I don't think a second referendum changes the result one bit. Little Englander? Yes, that's who we are.

Oh and huge chapter in politics and Labour are MIA. Scandalous.  

Just to clarify..What is it Labour should be doing? They could oppose Brexit. Other than that, they could offer a better Brexit, anything is better than being led out of Europe by the right wing nutter’s, so they are doing that. The other thing they could do is draw attention to how spectacularly the government is fucking this is up, that would be massive overkill though and they quite rightly spend time instead drawing attention to how spectacularly they’re fucking everything else up.

On another note, hilarious that May, Mantis, Rick etc think the EU should take pity on us, seriously wtf? The ‘high level negotiator’ won’t have come across an adversary acting against everyone’s best interests, it’s easier to respect people who don’t do idiotic things.

Of course it’s tragic but it is quite funny that May takes ‘Brexit means Remain’ to Salzburg and gets her arse handed to her, even with the ultra watered down version. Now she has to face Mogg, Jenkin, 🦊 etc.

It isn't about pity, its about taking a pragmatic position to find a way that works in our common interests.


Of course, you know that really.


Lets see what happens, I still think there will be a deal struck.

[kukushkin88]

If this really is Labour's position, then the size of the size of the split is going to be magnified significantly. The only hope for Corbyn of minimising the impact was to cut a deal with the Remainers on People's Vote.

"John McDonnell: Labour wants to push ahead with Brexit
On eve of conference, shadow chancellor defies calls for party to promise second referendum"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/22/john-mcdonnell-labour-wants-to-push-ahead-with-brexit

It is disappointing. Such an easy win and they’re playing politics with it, weighing up voting intention’s at the next GE.

[MANTIS01]

What is it Labour should be doing?

Ironically enough....Capitalising

[kukushkin88]

A friend of mine use to lead high level negotiations for a multinational IT business.

He said to me years ago, the golden rule of negotiation is to treat your opposite number with respect however the discussions we going and never insult them.

Tusk and the EU leaders this week just ignored that golden rule.

It amplifies the reason people voted to leave to get away from these self serving politicians in Brussels and control our own destiny even if it means short term pain.

+1

I would add that you need to know your opposite number and how they think in order to devise a successful negotiating strategy. In this whole episode the EU have adopted a tough stance that the British were always going to resist. They either don't know us or more likely they are deliberately sticking the boot in. Why would they do that? Hugely questionable motivation for me. Either way it demonstrates very clearly why this union is not right for us. Sure the financial inducements are there and the numbers stack up. Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys . Wow! In fact I'm absolutely relishing the challenge ahead now. Let's go euro fag boys.

The big mistake from Remain and EU is pushing the bulldog into a corner. Ultimately they want a second referendum and the union to remain in tact. So engaging the British public into the concepts and benefits was the right idea. This project fear nonsense and stone cold approach is the opposite of what successful strategy looks like. The reality is way more people vote with their emotions & principles than logic. Call them all stupid, but how stupid is not being able to engage them to get the result you want? I don't think a second referendum changes the result one bit. Little Englander? Yes, that's who we are.

Oh and huge chapter in politics and Labour are MIA. Scandalous.  

Just to clarify..What is it Labour should be doing? They could oppose Brexit. Other than that, they could offer a better Brexit, anything is better than being led out of Europe by the right wing nutter’s, so they are doing that. The other thing they could do is draw attention to how spectacularly the government is fucking this is up, that would be massive overkill though and they quite rightly spend time instead drawing attention to how spectacularly they’re fucking everything else up.

On another note, hilarious that May, Mantis, Rick etc think the EU should take pity on us, seriously wtf? The ‘high level negotiator’ won’t have come across an adversary acting against everyone’s best interests, it’s easier to respect people who don’t do idiotic things.

Of course it’s tragic but it is quite funny that May takes ‘Brexit means Remain’ to Salzburg and gets her arse handed to her, even with the ultra watered down version. Now she has to face Mogg, Jenkin, 🦊 etc.

It isn't about pity, its about taking a pragmatic position to find a way that works in our common interests.

Of course, you know that really.

Lets see what happens, I still think there will be a deal struck.

I’m expecting a deal, the EU will dictate it’s terms or it’ll be the ‘Norway’ option. We get no say and maybe learn something about our new status in the modern world.

Anybody seen the papers today? I just went for my Racing Post and wow, they’re painting May’s trip like she did well out there, she was actually shaking with fear, probably realising what we’ve known for years, that she is a legit contender in the ‘has anyone ever been shitter at anything?’ contest, such an embarrassment.

[nirvana]

2016
Brexiteers: Brexit means Brexit
EU27: UK will be treated as a third country

2018
Brexiteers: UK is being treated as a third country
EU27: Brexit means Brexit

Saw this on twitter and though it summed up the last few days quite well.

Can't say I feel any antipathy to the EU. Don't feel we're hurt or slighted by their approach - anyone who has had business negotiations with French corporates will recognise the style, approach and petty behaviours. Pretty confident that the concept of win-win doesn't exist in France.


I'm happy to let them 'win'.

[MANTIS01]

A friend of mine use to lead high level negotiations for a multinational IT business.

He said to me years ago, the golden rule of negotiation is to treat your opposite number with respect however the discussions we going and never insult them.

Tusk and the EU leaders this week just ignored that golden rule.

It amplifies the reason people voted to leave to get away from these self serving politicians in Brussels and control our own destiny even if it means short term pain.

+1

I would add that you need to know your opposite number and how they think in order to devise a successful negotiating strategy. In this whole episode the EU have adopted a tough stance that the British were always going to resist. They either don't know us or more likely they are deliberately sticking the boot in. Why would they do that? Hugely questionable motivation for me. Either way it demonstrates very clearly why this union is not right for us. Sure the financial inducements are there and the numbers stack up. Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys . Wow! In fact I'm absolutely relishing the challenge ahead now. Let's go euro fag boys.

The big mistake from Remain and EU is pushing the bulldog into a corner. Ultimately they want a second referendum and the union to remain in tact. So engaging the British public into the concepts and benefits was the right idea. This project fear nonsense and stone cold approach is the opposite of what successful strategy looks like. The reality is way more people vote with their emotions & principles than logic. Call them all stupid, but how stupid is not being able to engage them to get the result you want? I don't think a second referendum changes the result one bit. Little Englander? Yes, that's who we are.

Oh and huge chapter in politics and Labour are MIA. Scandalous.  

Just to clarify..What is it Labour should be doing? They could oppose Brexit. Other than that, they could offer a better Brexit, anything is better than being led out of Europe by the right wing nutter’s, so they are doing that. The other thing they could do is draw attention to how spectacularly the government is fucking this is up, that would be massive overkill though and they quite rightly spend time instead drawing attention to how spectacularly they’re fucking everything else up.

On another note, hilarious that May, Mantis, Rick etc think the EU should take pity on us, seriously wtf? The ‘high level negotiator’ won’t have come across an adversary acting against everyone’s best interests, it’s easier to respect people who don’t do idiotic things.

Of course it’s tragic but it is quite funny that May takes ‘Brexit means Remain’ to Salzburg and gets her arse handed to her, even with the ultra watered down version. Now she has to face Mogg, Jenkin, 🦊 etc.

It isn't about pity, its about taking a pragmatic position to find a way that works in our common interests.

Of course, you know that really.

Lets see what happens, I still think there will be a deal struck.

I’m expecting a deal, the EU will dictate it’s terms or it’ll be the ‘Norway’ option. We get no say and maybe learn something about our new status in the modern world.

Anybody seen the papers today? I just went for my Racing Post and wow, they’re painting May’s trip like she did well out there, she was actually shaking with fear, probably realising what we’ve known for years, that she is a legit contender in the ‘has anyone ever been shitter at anything?’ contest, such an embarrassment.

In the 'has anyone been shitter at anything' contest we find Jeremy Corbyn 2 points behind Teresa May in the polls.

Anyway, the terms the EU are trying to dictate won't be accepted mate. It doesn't matter how much pressure is applied because they won't be accepted. No deal looks increasingly likely to me. We should turn our attentions away from Maybot and put the EU more under the microscope here. Why offer terms you know won't be accepted? I think really it's to force no confidence votes against our PM and I find it interfering and their intentions moody. Oh and thanks to the French PM for telling us why we voted as we did. Wow, the UK is huge economy and we're a valuable international ally to have and Kim Jong gets afforded more respect. Amazing scenes.

[kukushkin88]

A friend of mine use to lead high level negotiations for a multinational IT business.

He said to me years ago, the golden rule of negotiation is to treat your opposite number with respect however the discussions we going and never insult them.

Tusk and the EU leaders this week just ignored that golden rule.

It amplifies the reason people voted to leave to get away from these self serving politicians in Brussels and control our own destiny even if it means short term pain.

+1

I would add that you need to know your opposite number and how they think in order to devise a successful negotiating strategy. In this whole episode the EU have adopted a tough stance that the British were always going to resist. They either don't know us or more likely they are deliberately sticking the boot in. Why would they do that? Hugely questionable motivation for me. Either way it demonstrates very clearly why this union is not right for us. Sure the financial inducements are there and the numbers stack up. Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys . Wow! In fact I'm absolutely relishing the challenge ahead now. Let's go euro fag boys.

The big mistake from Remain and EU is pushing the bulldog into a corner. Ultimately they want a second referendum and the union to remain in tact. So engaging the British public into the concepts and benefits was the right idea. This project fear nonsense and stone cold approach is the opposite of what successful strategy looks like. The reality is way more people vote with their emotions & principles than logic. Call them all stupid, but how stupid is not being able to engage them to get the result you want? I don't think a second referendum changes the result one bit. Little Englander? Yes, that's who we are.

Oh and huge chapter in politics and Labour are MIA. Scandalous.  

Just to clarify..What is it Labour should be doing? They could oppose Brexit. Other than that, they could offer a better Brexit, anything is better than being led out of Europe by the right wing nutter’s, so they are doing that. The other thing they could do is draw attention to how spectacularly the government is fucking this is up, that would be massive overkill though and they quite rightly spend time instead drawing attention to how spectacularly they’re fucking everything else up.

On another note, hilarious that May, Mantis, Rick etc think the EU should take pity on us, seriously wtf? The ‘high level negotiator’ won’t have come across an adversary acting against everyone’s best interests, it’s easier to respect people who don’t do idiotic things.

Of course it’s tragic but it is quite funny that May takes ‘Brexit means Remain’ to Salzburg and gets her arse handed to her, even with the ultra watered down version. Now she has to face Mogg, Jenkin, 🦊 etc.

It isn't about pity, its about taking a pragmatic position to find a way that works in our common interests.

Of course, you know that really.

Lets see what happens, I still think there will be a deal struck.

I’m expecting a deal, the EU will dictate it’s terms or it’ll be the ‘Norway’ option. We get no say and maybe learn something about our new status in the modern world.

Anybody seen the papers today? I just went for my Racing Post and wow, they’re painting May’s trip like she did well out there, she was actually shaking with fear, probably realising what we’ve known for years, that she is a legit contender in the ‘has anyone ever been shitter at anything?’ contest, such an embarrassment.

In the 'has anyone been shitter at anything' contest we find Jeremy Corbyn 2 points behind Teresa May in the polls.

Anyway, the terms the EU are trying to dictate won't be accepted mate. It doesn't matter how much pressure is applied because they won't be accepted. No deal looks increasingly likely to me. We should turn our attentions away from Maybot and put the EU more under the microscope here. Why offer terms you know won't be accepted? I think really it's to force no confidence votes against our PM and I find it interfering and their intentions moody. Oh and thanks to the French PM for telling us why we voted as we did. Wow, the UK is huge economy and we're a valuable international ally to have and Kim Jong gets afforded more respect. Amazing scenes.

I think you’re thinking about it the wrong way to think of the EU ‘offering terms’ they just state the rules. We can posture all we like (to placate the emotional types. How are you feeling?) but in the end we accept them.

[doubleup]

Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys .

yeah you much prefer to cow down before NI Loyalist bully boys who prop up your precious tories

[kukushkin88]

Yet give me less choice on the shelves all day long before I cow down to johnny foreigner bully boys .

yeah you much prefer to cow down before NI Loyalist bully boys who prop up your precious tories

Good point. It’s amusing that ‘Johnny Foreigner’ the bully boy is basically a paranoid delusion. Less funny that it’s this delusion that got us in this mess. Also.. who actually uses the term ‘Johnny Foreigner’ these days?! Other than to tease the silly xenophobe’s.