The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Jon MW]

I've noticed a lot of the government advert with a voice over of people asking how Brexit will affect them and their plans, and being pointed towards the government advice.

Couldn't help thinking that advert by itself could have made a more effective 'Remain' campaign for the Referendum than everything they actually did put together.


I was particularly amused by the voice over of "how will it affect my business?" - I'm pretty sure the flower importer worried about No Deal ruining his business might even have paid attention to that if it was run before the referendum.

[aaron1867]

This thing is turning into something completely dreadful & John Bercow, what a clown.

I have said this over and over again, but if you want Brexit to happen, or to stay in the EU, then the only way past all of this is go to the people. Yet, brexiteers wont have it and will ultimately faced with no Brexit at all. It is the way foward and if all the legislation isn't passed for it anytime soon, then we will still be be here in 2020.

This April 12th thing is vital, I can't see us going to the 22nd may. You are left with either Revoke v No deal (and May will not vote for No Deal) or ask for a longer extension where the EU have forced the country into an election or second ref. These new votes on Wednesday are a distraction too, I don't see any being able to get a majority and therefore we are in the same position as last week.

Let's just get on with the people's vote and end all of it.

[MintTrav]

From the Minister for Business and Industry’s resignation letter:

“...as the UK’s Industry Minister, the clear message I have been receiving from the business community is that the failure to secure a deal and to rule out a hard Brexit is resulting in cancelled investment decisions, business being placed abroad, and a sense of ridicule for British business, across the world.”

[MANTIS01]

Business and industry generally look to the medium and long term when talking about confidence and investment. So I would ask how much focus has been placed on the landscape 5yrs beyond Brexit in recent times? The great deals available all around the globe, exciting new markets, less restrictions and new freedoms? Absolutely none. Parliament has failed to unite, bickering backwards and forwards about what is happening right now, pushing personal agendas at the country's expense, flapping about the shortage of tinned peaches and toilet roll.

So it's clear that the Minister for Business and Industry is a prize plum because a) a deal has been secured and b) ruling out a hard Brexit during negotiations would undermine the quality of any deal offered. So instead the Minister just flounces off and probably because he's a Remainer putting his own interests first, just like the rest of this rabble of so called leaders

Brexit cannot be seen as a bad move, not until we look way into the future anyways. What has been a terrible move is a failure to unite behind the decision to leave, triggering Article 50 too quickly and without a firm plan, division over the secured deal offered and obsessive knickers in a twist mentality over short term fallout. That is what's affected confidence. We have seen a lot of blame mentality regarding the stupid people who voted Leave but they seem to be a fcking shining beacon of wisdom compared to the hapless loons in parliament who have let them down so badly.

[nirvana]

Aaron. Don't worry. Eventually there will be another vote and we'll stay put. Along the way there's been so much huff and puff that I actually thought we would leave. We won't

[MintTrav]

Business and industry generally look to the medium and long term when talking about confidence and investment. So I would ask how much focus has been placed on the landscape 5yrs beyond Brexit in recent times? The great deals available all around the globe, exciting new markets, less restrictions and new freedoms? Absolutely none. Parliament has failed to unite, bickering backwards and forwards about what is happening right now, pushing personal agendas at the country's expense, flapping about the shortage of tinned peaches and toilet roll.

So it's clear that the Minister for Business and Industry is a prize plum because a) a deal has been secured and b) ruling out a hard Brexit during negotiations would undermine the quality of any deal offered. So instead the Minister just flounces off and probably because he's a Remainer putting his own interests first, just like the rest of this rabble of so called leaders

Brexit cannot be seen as a bad move, not until we look way into the future anyways. What has been a terrible move is a failure to unite behind the decision to leave, triggering Article 50 too quickly and without a firm plan, division over the secured deal offered and obsessive knickers in a twist mentality over short term fallout. That is what's affected confidence. We have seen a lot of blame mentality regarding the stupid people who voted Leave but they seem to be a fcking shining beacon of wisdom compared to the hapless loons in parliament who have let them down so badly.

Thanks for a serious reply. There is a lot wrong in those three paragraphs in my opinion, but I’m not about to go through line by line listing all the items I think are incorrect. I would mention, though, that I’m pretty sure there has been work done looking at the future beyond five years, which concluded that it would take at least several decades to recover from Brexit, if we ever did.

[Sheriff Fatman]

This thing is turning into something completely dreadful & John Bercow, what a clown.

Bercow has been fantastic in dealing with this so far, particularly in recent weeks.  Why do you think he's a clown?

[RED-DOG]

This thing is turning into something completely dreadful & John Bercow, what a clown.

Bercow has been fantastic in dealing with this so far, particularly in recent weeks.  Why do you think he's a clown?

I don't know why Aaron goes looking for things that upset him.

Poor Aaron.

[nirvana]

On the indicative votes; not sure I get that it is even a consideration that these are whipped. Whipping and party lines is a big part of why we're where we are now shirley

[Sheriff Fatman]

I have said this over and over again, but if you want Brexit to happen, or to stay in the EU, then the only way past all of this is go to the people. Yet, brexiteers wont have it and will ultimately faced with no Brexit at all. It is the way foward and if all the legislation isn't passed for it anytime soon, then we will still be be here in 2020.

This April 12th thing is vital, I can't see us going to the 22nd may. You are left with either Revoke v No deal (and May will not vote for No Deal) or ask for a longer extension where the EU have forced the country into an election or second ref. These new votes on Wednesday are a distraction too, I don't see any being able to get a majority and therefore we are in the same position as last week.

Let's just get on with the people's vote and end all of it.

Slightly puzzled by this.  You want a people's vote (as do I, FWIW) but your post seems to imply that it's feasible without a longer extension being agreed first, which isn't the case.  To legislate for it, we need to get the long extension (or Revoke A50) and to participate in the Euro Elections prior to it happening.  April 12th is our deadline to ask for this.  May 22nd becomes a dead duck date by the end of this week unless we've passed May's deal by then, which seems unlikely to even be voted on at the moment.

I'm also puzzled by the comment regarding May not voting for No Deal, but she doesn't need to vote for it.  We do need to take some positive action prior to April 12th to stop it happening as the legal default on that date, which they kind of committed to doing last night in the discussion around Beckett's amendment, but would have been mandated to do so had that vote also passed.

The biggest unanswered issue with the People's Vote is that there's no clear idea as to what should be asked on it at the moment.  The most likely option as it stands would be May's deal vs Remain, but I doubt this satisfies the Brexiters if we reach that stage.  The question is, assuming that a 2nd ref does happen, what version of Brexit do they want to be the option on the ballot?

[EvilPie]

F***ing peoples vote!!!! Yes Tikay, they're exclamation marks. I believe they're warranted based on how loud I'm screaming these words in my head.

It really winds me up. It's a second vote because loads of people aren't happy with the outcome of the first one.

Why do you have to gloss it up by making it sound like it's something different to the first vote? Was the first one a toadstools vote or something?

The toadstools got it wrong, let's ask the people now instead.

Utter bo****ks!!! (More entirely warranted exclamation marks).

PS: This isn't aimed directly at Sheriff, he's just the latest person to mention it. It's mainly aimed at that smug c**t Linekar who was the first person I heard say it.

And breathe.......

[Marky147]

F***ing peoples vote!!!! Yes Tikay, they're exclamation marks. I believe they're warranted based on how loud I'm screaming these words in my head.

It really winds me up. It's a second vote because loads of people aren't happy with the outcome of the first one.

Why do you have to gloss it up by making it sound like it's something different to the first vote? Was the first one a toadstools vote or something?

The toadstools got it wrong, let's ask the people now instead.

Utter bo****ks!!! (More entirely warranted exclamation marks).

PS: This isn't aimed directly at Sheriff, he's just the latest person to mention it. It's mainly aimed at that smug c**t Linekar who was the first person I heard say it.

And breathe.......

#peoplesvote

[Sheriff Fatman]

F***ing peoples vote!!!! Yes Tikay, they're exclamation marks. I believe they're warranted based on how loud I'm screaming these words in my head.

It really winds me up. It's a second vote because loads of people aren't happy with the outcome of the first one.

Why do you have to gloss it up by making it sound like it's something different to the first vote? Was the first one a toadstools vote or something?

The toadstools got it wrong, let's ask the people now instead.

Utter bo****ks!!! (More entirely warranted exclamation marks).

PS: This isn't aimed directly at Sheriff, he's just the latest person to mention it. It's mainly aimed at that smug c**t Linekar who was the first person I heard say it.

And breathe.......

In fairness, I generally prefer 2nd Ref as the description, but was replying to Aaron's post referring to it as the PV.

I'm an exception to the general rule on this though, as "People's Vote" is as much a part of the narrative now as "Brexit", which I also hate.

[RED-DOG]

F***ing peoples vote!!!! Yes Tikay, they're exclamation marks. I believe they're warranted based on how loud I'm screaming these words in my head.

It really winds me up. It's a second vote because loads of people aren't happy with the outcome of the first one.

Why do you have to gloss it up by making it sound like it's something different to the first vote? Was the first one a toadstools vote or something?

The toadstools got it wrong, let's ask the people now instead.

Utter bo****ks!!! (More entirely warranted exclamation marks).

PS: This isn't aimed directly at Sheriff, he's just the latest person to mention it. It's mainly aimed at that smug c**t Linekar who was the first person I heard say it.

And breathe.......

I think they were more like mushrooms than toadstools- Kept in the dark, fed on shit.

[nirvana]

Just been watching Ian Blackford - think I want an extension so the Scots can have a referendum vote where they only need something like 37% of the electorate to vote for independence for it to happen