The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

updating for today

huge moves

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[TightEnd]

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[arbboy]

No point voting now.  All over.

[The Camel]

No point voting now.  All over.

What price was a hung parliament at noon on general election day?

Just saying.

[AndrewT]

No point voting now.  All over.

What price was a hung parliament at noon on general election day?

Just saying.

But the exit poll got the result spot on and that's what's driving the moves today - secret exit poll data.

[arbboy]

No point voting now.  All over.

What price was a hung parliament at noon on general election day?

Just saying.

But the exit poll got the result spot on and that's what's driving the moves today - secret exit poll data.

Correct.  All over.

[The Camel]

No point voting now.  All over.

What price was a hung parliament at noon on general election day?

Just saying.

But the exit poll got the result spot on and that's what's driving the moves today - secret exit poll data.

You don't think people who were backing hung parliament at long odds on were betting blind do you?

Miliband thought Labour were going to be largest party based on the data he was receiving on polling day.

The exit polls vastly underestimated the tory win.

People lie to pollsters.

[Doobs]

Do people even read this stuff before forwarding it on facebook.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

In a couple of minutes

There is little chance that there was an EU grant to move the Ford Transit production to Turkey (outside EU), or Dyson prooduction to malaysia (not only is outside the EU, but you not think James Dyson would have mentioned it when he was telling us to leave the EU the other day).  Ane why would they pay a grant to somebody to move a company outside the EU?  They just don't even pass a simple common sense test.
Pretty sure the Mini is mostly made in Oxford (just checked, I am right, though some production is now elsewhere as demand is so high).
Tata has taken no money from a pension fund (and neither has Philip Green ffs).
(some) uk airports are owned by a spanish company.
We still lead the world in some technology (ARM chips are in most phones, most F1 teams are based here, we still have top 4 of the top 10 universities in the world etc)
There are no laws ceding control of our armed forced to the EU.
There are no regulations stopping us teaching "electronic technology"
I'd think I'd have heard about it if chinese steel had "catastrophically failed" in lots of nuclear power plants.  
EU grants have been provided to numerous deprived areas in the UK.  If the fella can't find one single one, the author clearly can't even spell google.
The "EU paid" to destroy the fishing industry can't even be close to the truth.

Just checked a few more.

For instance I know little of the Ajax, so looked it up and it was originally built in Spain.  As a condition of the order they are moving production to wales and not the other way round.
Hornby moved all manufacturing to China in 1995.  Zero chance that is an EU grant either.  It seems that they have since moved some of their manufacturing back to the UK http://www.hornby.com/us-en/news/hornby-returns-humbrol-manufacturing-to-the-uk/

I guess some of it must be true, but am finding it pretty hard to find which bits.  Even where production has moved, and I really haven't checked them all, the EU may well provide a grant for opening a plant in, say, a deprived part of say Slovakia, but they aren't deliberately doing that as part of some deliberate policy of moving UK jobs on to Jonny Foreigner.

[The Camel]

Do people even read this stuff before forwarding it on facebook.

No.

[Doobs]

No point voting now.  All over.

What price was a hung parliament at noon on general election day?

Just saying.

But the exit poll got the result spot on and that's what's driving the moves today - secret exit poll data.

You don't think people who were backing hung parliament at long odds on were betting blind do you?

Miliband thought Labour were going to be largest party based on the data he was receiving on polling day.

The exit polls vastly underestimated the tory win.

People lie to pollsters.

I think you are getting confused with the pre election day polls.  I am pretty sure the bbc exit poll on the day of the last election was pretty much spot on.  

I think there is an obvious problem with party's sending out their own staff to get polling data.  As poker broker told us many times before the scottish referendum, he and his buddies were getitng told on the street that there was going to be a masisve majority to leave the UK.

[nirvana]

Am tempted to take the 6/1, then at least if the proper working class get their way then I can have a nice glass of champagne in my Tuscan villa to drown my sorrows.  Ok Yah.

Haha. I'm all in black shouting anarchy outside my polling station but will certainly return home later to a glass of wine and to review my shares and house prices

[DungBeetle]

Remain is home and hosed, but the margin of victory will shape the political landscape for a decade imo.  Massive difference between 60/40 and 53/47 in terms of UKIP being a legitimate force going forward in my opinion.   Likewise a resounding remain win would put off other countries agitating for their own referendums.  I think there is more to this vote than just the outright winner.

I'm a reluctant remain voter, but I think it's important everyone votes irrespective of which way you are going.

[The Camel]

No point voting now.  All over.

What price was a hung parliament at noon on general election day?

Just saying.

But the exit poll got the result spot on and that's what's driving the moves today - secret exit poll data.

You don't think people who were backing hung parliament at long odds on were betting blind do you?

Miliband thought Labour were going to be largest party based on the data he was receiving on polling day.

The exit polls vastly underestimated the tory win.

People lie to pollsters.

I think you are getting confused with the pre election day polls.  I am pretty sure the bbc exit poll on the day of the last election was pretty much spot on.  

I think there is an obvious problem with party's sending out their own staff to get polling data.  As poker broker told us many times before the scottish referendum, he and his buddies were getitng told on the street that there was going to be a masisve majority to leave the UK.

IIRC the BBC poll at 10pm on election night called a hung parliament with Conservatives being a couple of seats short of an outright majority.

They far underextimated the collapse of the Labour Party in Scotland and the LibDems across the country.

[AndrewT]

Just done a check - the exit polls didn't get the result exactly right (had Tories on 316 rather than the 331 they actually got), but even the mostly wildly optimistic pre-election day forecast had the Tories on 290 with most far fewer than that.

[The Camel]

Just done a check - the exit polls didn't get the result exactly right (had Tories on 316 rather than the 331 they actually got), but even the mostly wildly optimistic pre-election day forecast had the Tories on 290 with most far fewer than that.

Yep, that's how I remember it.