blonde poker forum

Morning All,

Been a member on blonde for some time but never really posted.

Looking for some advice on PLO which I'm looking to start playing / studying (micro stakes).

Suppose firstly would be what site would anyone recommend? Currently play on pokerstars but is there anywhere better / softer?

Next would be training sites? Is it worth me subscribing to any just yet as I'm only playing micro stakes? Also any software that would be beneficial?

Lastly any general advice about starting to play PLO? how to study? and also moving up stakes?

Any help / advice would be great.

Cheers

Jason

Run It Once has some decent PLO videos on 10c/25c and higher. It's $10 a month for the standard plan that includes all 'Essential' videos. For roughly £6 a month, it's a steal IMO.

Hi Jason,

Welcome to blonde.

The answer to your first question is pretty much EVERYWHERE. Stars undoubtedly is the safest in terms of keeping your money. It has the best software of the options available to you. It has the most games. Overall it has the best security and customer support. Unfortunately its player rewards are not good which is of huge importance at the stakes you will be starting at. Secondly, the games are also overrall toughest.

I'd definitely advise trying a few of the European sites. DTD/Partypoker will be a popular fit around here given the forum is sponsored by DTD who are partnered with Party. Otherwise give ipoker/sky etc a spin and see where you do best and what you like most.

Runitonce has many good videos for PLO. At first I'd lap up all the good free information you can find on the internet. Post some hands in the Poker Hand Analysis (PHA) section of this forum and you can get some very good players giving you feedback and advice as well as some extra comments from the likes of Tikay and myself. :)

PHA really is a great learning resource. Given that it's free, lap it up! Whilst I don't want to direct you away from our forum, take a look at 2+2's micro stakes PLO sub section.

Invest in a HUD where you can analyse your Hands/statistics so you can identify mistakes and also your win rates. When you have a big enough sample of hands at any given limit that shows a nice win rate and your bankroll has grown enough that you can justify moving up without risking too much of your bankroll, then make the move or take a shot and if it doesn't go well, move back down. But be careful about this. If you are someone with tilt issues etc, take extra caution.

Very best of luck.

Invest in Pro Poker Tools Odds Oracle. You can do tons of work with it and nearly every strat thread you come across will use it or pokerjuice (which is a lot more expensive but prettier). When I transitioned over from NL I got this, opened it up and played some micro zoom plo. Typed every hand I got into PPT to get an idea of hand strength. Think it's really useful to get an idea % wise of how strong a hand is, which allows you to develop ranges. You can do tons with it, like check how often you can stack off with hand vs opponents range in a 3bet pot, how much equity you need to do so, how often you'll realise this equity etc. You'll improve massively in a short space of time and feel a lot more comfortable when you have a good maths based foundation.

Got to be one of your best posts ! Was good to chat to you in Vegas,good luck for the future which im sure you will get as you seemed to have matured well in life !!!! Greek xxx

 :hello: Pete :)

Great post, really great.

Not much to add but a few things I would really stress are;

1. Don't play many tables, such a huge, very common mistake I see inexperienced omaha players makes, they play too many tables and as a result are not watching/taking in/learning from anything they see they are just racing themselves to click buttons as fast as they can. Remember this is a learning and developing time, don't let rake-back or bonuses or anything tempt you into mass-tabling, play 1 or 2 tables MAXimum and just really watch what is happening, when hands you're not participating in get to showdown look at them, how did X, or Y player play this hand, analyse it yourself there and then, it's a great way to keep yourself sharp and focused. Like cos said when you use PHA, it doesn't have to be your hand you post!

2. Pick the right stakes, as you're not going to be multi-tabling hard (I hope!!) you don't need a huge amount of buyins and it's defo best to start with small deposits and try to run them up, that way you don't feel any financial pressure on the money, "No I'm down to 80 from 300 if I don't win it back then XXX" as any thoughts/fears like this will just cause you huge deflection of focus away from the play which is where 100% of our focus should be. My advice would be to pick stakes where you are completely financially comfortable playing (basically could you lose 15 buyins at this level and be completely unaffected in your way of living etc) I would say though try to pick a level where the money does have a little meaning, so you avoid ever thinking "well it's only £15" or whatever, and you get a lil run in your stomach when you win a big pot, as this is a great part of the game - we're not robots after all.

Once you've picked your stakes I'd start off by depositing 400 big blinds for that stake (4x buyins) and kick off with one table,  obviously the risk of losing this deposit in its entirety is pretty high, so be prepared for that, and be ready and willing to deposit another 4 if it happens. Running a decent bankroll up from tiny investment is a great feeling for morale, and excellent when you are starting out.

3. Take notes, as you're watching, write stuff down, if you can invest in a tracker like Holdem manager or pokertacker they have a feature which is "mark hand" which makes going back to look at hands very easy. Writing stuff down though to look at after the session is a great way to improve, write anything down, "when I open in the cut-off I get 3bet a lot" "I seem to be losing with low run-downs" "was it right to get all-in with just a flush draw in XXX hand" whereas the notes themselves might not be amazing quality(!) the practice of always looking at everything, and then immediately noting it is a really really good one to be in as it really holds your focus.

4. Makes notes on players, when you see them do something bad - note it, good - note it. Something that is a clear indication of their style of play - note it. Even basic notes "Good player, very aggressive" might come in useful later.

5. MOST IMPORTANT - Enjoy playing, don't play because you "need to get X hours in and make $X" play because it's fun and you're enjoying learning. SO many people I see starting out in poker or a new typeof poker and they just bludgeon all the enjoyment out of it with pressure and expectation. The reality of what you're about to do is this, you're starting to play a game you are inexperienced in, in games where the rake structure is very high and against people who are likely more experienced playing than yourself. When you first take your seat you're unlikely to be in a position of expected profit, it's a really fun, interesting game OMAHA, so play, enjoy playing, enjoy learning about it, really focus and watch the action and you'll give yourself a great chance to really improve - but make sure you have fun doing so!

Very best of luck, keep us posted with how it goes and get some hands fired into PHA.

David

At this point the only advice that can be given is to read the posts by Cos and Dave again. Then read them again slowly. Then print them out and read them each day.

Well done both.

Hi All,

Firstly thanks for all the advice it's very very helpful, will be sure to revert back to this thread and keep all of it fresh in my mind.

So I've invested in RIO which is a steal at £6/month as there is so much information / videos and the hand analysis is also very interesting and helpful. It also has very good material regarding the use of poker juice which I have invested in which seems like a great tool, just need to work out how to use it to its full potential!!

Will be spending tonight setting up HUD for PLO and making sure I've got all that working correctly.

Decided to open up an account on bet365 where I've never played before traffic seems ok just need to keep my money of the sports book when the footie season kicks off.. Going to 2 table PLO10 at the start I've been use to 10 tabling NL so 2 should be ok if I don't feel I'm taking everything in, taking notes effectively and concentrating will drop to 1 tabling for the time being, what is the reasoning with sitting 400bb deep I have been sitting 100bb deep with auto top up?

Won't be putting in a full session until Saturday evening as I'm heading down to Brighton Friday for golf and a night out.  Will play a full session Saturday and Sunday and be sure to update here and will post some hands I found interesting which you can all flame away on!!

Going to really concentrate on opening ranges and position as it seems a lot of people play to tight and passive pre flop not sure if that the case in the stakes I'm playing?

Anyway thanks again for the advice.

Jason

Sorry I didn't mean buyin to the table for 400 big blinds, I meant kick off your bankroll in the site with 400bb for the game you're going to play, spinning up from small money when you are learning is easily the best way to go,as long as you're prepared to invest some more money as risk of busting is pretty high.

You might even wanna think about starting off with 50big blind buyins... see how you feel.

Ok got ya..

Happy with 100bb and auto top up.. Starting at PLO10 is going to be okay as I have the bankroll to accommodate the risk / downswings whilst I'm learning.

Cheers for confirming and good luck with the blog will be a good read!

CELTIC  :hello:

Evening all..

So played a small session tonight started grinding PLO10 then jumped onto PLO20 table just to try and spin up and see what the standard was like, was playing pretty well / comfortable until the below happened!! Guess I couldn't really get away from the hand..

Anyway was just a small session to make sure hud and all table settings were ok.

Real grind starts on Saturday where I will post some more interesting spots / hands after the session.

Golf tomorrow hopefully can shoot another sub 82 round will post score card depending on how it looks!! Then its a night out on the town.



IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $20 (100 bb)
BB: $35.03 (175.2 bb)
UTG: $7.73 (38.7 bb)
MP: $14.32 (71.6 bb)
CO: $22.41 (112.1 bb)
Hero (BTN): $22.23 (111.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Ac Qs Ad 4c
2 folds, CO raises to $0.70, Hero calls $0.70, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.70) 3h 2s 5c (2 players)
CO bets $1.19, Hero calls $1.19

Turn: ($4.08) Ks (2 players)
CO bets $3.26, Hero raises to $7.40, CO raises to $20.52 and is all-in, Hero calls $12.94 and is all-in

River: ($44.76) Jh (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $44.76 pot ($2.23 rake)
Final Board: 3h 2s 5c Ks Jh
CO showed  Ahrt 6c 7h 4h and won $42.53 ($20.30 net)
Hero mucked Ac Qs Ad 4c and lost (-$22.23 net)

Think this is pretty standard the only a small number of hands on villan but he was playing circa 75% of pots from the time I was on the table.

Cheers

Jason

Isn't this just a turn call rather than a turn raise?

What would be the reason behind a turn call? I've really been struggling to put people on hands since playing as they all seem to play so loose. I saw him over playing over pairs previously and also sets on the turn i put him on KK/QQ/JJ hands and maybe two pair? Is there an argument for 3betting pre? I flat called as I was in position and could disguise the strength of my hand?

Sorry if I'm being stupid just starting to learn the game so any comments are appreciated. Thought this was a standard spot / bad beat but maybe I'm wrong!!

Turn is fine with that specific read and that specific turn

SPR on the flop is 12.5 or so, which is too deep to plan get in the second nut straight with no redraws. That's why raise/calling the turn here is not 'standard' - it is an adjustment. If you have a strong read that villain will stack off with all sets/two pair here then that could be a valid reason to make such an adjustment.

i would put in three bets pre flop.

And I wouldn't be shy about putting in a 5th or 7th :D

Will responde to the hand comments tomorrow thanks for the comments..(had a few beers so won't reply now)

Anyway.. Golf update shot 39 on the front nine playing good solid golf..

For a bit of a laugh who ever has posted in this thread already can guess what my overall total score was for the round I will place a £20 sports bet of their choice and we will go 75/25 in their favour have till Sunday evening to post I have a photo of the score card!! (Who ever is closest wins)

Anyway the town awaits!!

Cheers

Jason

agreed not nuts and no redraw getting in turn with this sort of hand will get u in trouble. Turn call would be ok

Not great starting but pre is fine imo and flop call too after past turn in this spot just looks hopeful to say the least

Micro plo blog? Gl sir

So deposited £40 Saturday and just finished for the weekend and the bankroll is up to £83 which is a good start. Have run well in places and got a few hands that I will post in PHA for people's thoughts.

With regards to the straight hand I put up Thursday I can see where I have gone wrong here and without the any redraws and the SPR it's a clear call not raise. I've also been 3 betting these hands when in position as once you have the initiative at these stakes you can get people of semi / drawing hand far easier.

Got football tomorrow night but will watch some ROI videos and look back at the weekend sessions. Has anyone got any advice on how to study your sessions? What to look for? Notes to take? Never really done it in real depth before so any advice would be helpful.

Anyway played golf on Friday was a nice course in Hove and obviously the weather made it that much better. Shot 39 on the front nine but the putter went cold on the back nine and seemed to loose concentration and ended up shooting 44 for a total of 83!! Yes the math on the score card is wrong my mate can't add up!!
Got another round up north on Thursday so can hopefully carry the form through to this..


After the golf went on a bit of a session in Hove and can't really remember much from the night was too pissed..

Think I might look to put some goals up for the month not all poker related will have a think.

Obviously will carry on grinding PLO10 until I seem super comfortable but when do you think I should take a shot at PLO20?

Cheers

Jason

That hand is defo a call on the turn, not because we're worried that our hand isn't the best as we can be fairly happy we have the best hand, but this is Omaha where when we raise on lock-down boards (boards where there is one, very obvious nuts) by default we usually have a pretty polarised range of hands... whereas we can get value in the shape of calls from slightly worse hands (sets mostly) when he goes all-in then we now have to call off with extremely bad equity vs his range.

All this can be easily avoided by not raising in such spots with the second nut straight.

Not that you can't build into your strategy raises with less than the nuts on lock-down boards but you need a MUCH better reason than "you saw him overplay a pair."   

Note the major difference between a spot like this and having 88 on a board like 58Qhh.

Also defo defo 3bet pre-flop, obviously you have a good hand when you 3bet but this isn't like 3betting in NL where again naturally you tend to be a bit more polarised, flat KQs and 3bet K4s etc where you can fold to 4bets and so on, you only 3bet in PLO when you have a range and/or play-ability advantage and you want to be able to 3bet as much IP as you possibly can and this means always 3betting AA IP. Only reasons really to not 3bet is if you have really aggro-squeezers behind you at certain stacks.

Nice work so far though, keep posting hands, its fun.

That hand is defo a call on the turn, not because we're worried that our hand isn't the best as we can be fairly happy we have the best hand, but this is Omaha where when we raise on lock-down boards (boards where there is one, very obvious nuts) by default we usually have a pretty polarised range of hands... whereas we can get value in the shape of calls from slightly worse hands (sets mostly) when he goes all-in then we now have to call off with extremely bad equity vs his range.

All this can be easily avoided by not raising in such spots with the second nut straight.

Not that you can't build into your strategy raises with less than the nuts on lock-down boards but you need a MUCH better reason than "you saw him overplay a pair."   

Note the major difference between a spot like this and having 88 on a board like 58Qhh.

Also defo defo 3bet pre-flop, obviously you have a good hand when you 3bet but this isn't like 3betting in NL where again naturally you tend to be a bit more polarised, flat KQs and 3bet K4s etc where you can fold to 4bets and so on, you only 3bet in PLO when you have a range and/or play-ability advantage and you want to be able to 3bet as much IP as you possibly can and this means always 3betting AA IP. Only reasons really to not 3bet is if you have really aggro-squeezers behind you at certain stacks.

Nice work so far though, keep posting hands, its fun.

Thanks for this I completely get what your saying and will keep this in mind for the future.

Going to run though the HH from the weekend tonight and I know ive got a few hands marked which were interesting and will post them later for discussion (I hope they are interesting anyway and not just standard spots)

If anyone could tell me how to upload pictures from an iPhone would be helpful as I have no idea!!

So update...

HHs

Intended to do this tonight but not really unfortunate I ended up going for beers!! Will post hands tomorrow with thoughts for you all to comment/flame/advise, hopefully will make for some good discussions!!

Diary

Think this will turn into a microPLO diary. Been thinking would hopefully be a good read and won't keep it all poker will throw in some life stories which mainly evolve around golf, beer and the associated nights out plus sports bets!! Not sure who I need to speak to but if it can get moved into the diary board that would be great also need to change the title!! Also think I'm going to post some goals monthly and a pipe dream.

Other stuff

Found this article online regarding SPR which for a beginner was really helpful and kinda works for the HH I posted in this thread and the other thread in PHA, sorry if this is not allowed please delete if it's not...

http://www.cardplayer.com/cardplayer-poker-magazines/66224-poker-year-in-review-26-1/articles/21011-pot-limit-omaha-the-stack-to-pot-ratio-spr-part-i

Cheers Jason

Hi Jason,

Have moved this to the diary Board as requested.

Thank you Tikay

.

I shall follow, good luck at the table stack. Feel free to throw in some life stories/ hobbies etc

How old are you?

What made you only start learning PLO properly now?

Do you prefer cash or tourneys?

Favorite pizza?

Hey,

So played a session tonight which was very swingy was down 3.5bi at one point and couldn't get anything going but managed to pull it back to about break even.

Didn't feel I concentrated very well tonight and wasn't really prepared to play, I find it really helpful reading some strategy / watching a PLO video or even reading advice in this thread before I play as it seems to get me in the right frame of mind..

Got to be up at 4am as im heading to Wakefield to play golf with work and a night out, never been out up there before so should be interesting!

So had a couple of hands one from tonight and a couple from the weekend don't really have any reads or stats on villans as only just started playing on Bet365 but any thoughts / pointers will be appreciated -

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $16.54 (165.4 bb)
BB: $12.59 (125.9 bb)
UTG: $21.53 (215.3 bb)
MP: $18.75 (187.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $12.97 (129.7 bb)
BTN: $10.18 (101.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Kc Th 9c Ad
UTG folds, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, SB folds, BB calls $0.20, MP calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.25) 8d Td Ah (4 players)
BB bets $1.25, MP folds, Hero calls $1.25, BTN folds

Turn: ($3.75) 8s (2 players)
BB bets $1.87, Hero calls $1.87

River: ($7.49) 9s (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3.74, BB folds

Results: $7.49 pot ($0.49 rake)
Final Board: 8d Td Ah 8s 9s
BB mucked and lost (-$3.42 net)
Hero mucked Kc Th 9c Ad and won $7 ($3.58 net)

I raised in the CO to iso the limp from MP. Had be isolating this player a lot and winning a lot of small pots from him post flop. I don't expect the BB to be to strong with only the call in the blinds. Once the flop hits and he bets out I put him on 2pair maybe 108? Think as it played out was a good spot to semi bluff once he checks the river?


IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.15 (101.5 bb)
CO: $7.26 (72.6 bb)
Hero (BTN): $41.02 (410.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with As 3s Ad Tc
CO calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, CO calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) 3h Qc 3d (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $0.66, CO calls $0.66

Turn: ($2.27) 4s (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.13, CO raises to $5.66, Hero calls $4.53

River: ($13.59) 6s (2 players)
CO bets $0.54, Hero calls $0.54

Results: $14.67 pot ($0.97 rake)
Final Board: 3h Qc 3d 4s 6s
CO showed 3c 2h 5h 2c and won $13.70 ($6.44 net)
Hero mucked As 3s Ad Tc and lost (-$7.26 net)

Think this pretty much plays itself. On the river is this a case of getting to much in with no re draws or the nuts? Maybe something I should work on?

Cheers JP

Hey cheers for the following hopefully will be a fun ride!! Will post some life stories / hobby stories which will evolve mainly around golf in the summer, football in the winter and plenty of boozy nights.

Anyway im 31 years old!!

Started learning PLO as I just got plain bored of playing NL Holdem. Used to play a lot about 5/6 years ago mainly small stake tourneys had some decent results. Don't really get the time to play tourneys now so prefer cash. Also live in Balham so sometimes take a trip into town to see if I can spin up some dosh on the cash games. Would like to try the PLO tables sometime but not sure how tough if will be? But im genuinely interested in PLO and looking forward to learning a new game and hopefully moving up the stakes.

Favourite pizza has to be Texas Barbeque with Italian base from Dominos its a hangover cure. But I prefer a curry!!

 

Just a little update, played golf in Wakefield on Thursday which was followed up by a night out (will leave the stories for another post). Played a bit last night and pretty much broke even made some mistakes and think I wasn't in the right mind frame for playing tiered and getting over a Hanover.

Off to a BBQ today at my brothers place then on the grind tomorrow night. Will study a few HHs in the afternoon to get me in the right mind frame for playing..

Will prob update Monday with the Sunday grind and the night out in Batley (think that is what it's called) and Wakefield. We went to a very very strange venue!!!

Hope everyone is enjoying the weather along with England winning the ashes..

Jason