One for the rule book..............

[M3boy]

It wasnt at Luton.

My point about asking the follow up question of "if the chips go in first etc etc" was to see what exactly you were saying when you say it goes as a call in my OP (YOU meaning the people who say this is a call) - Therefore you are saying which ever action happens first, then that is the bet/call.

So, when you say the point in the OP is a call, you are using your "judgement" as by your own terms, you cannot tell which action happens first.

Now someone else's judgement may be that it is a raise, because that was clearly the intention.

There lies the problem.

[kinboshi]

Thought it was when the chips crossed the line, rather than when they landed?  Like in football (rather than in rugby).

[Hairydude]

Theres 2 arguments here:

1)should there be standardised rules to reduce ambiguity? I think there should be

&

2)as there are no standardised rules what should be the ruling here? I think the verbal should be-I've gave my argument earlier why I think this.... But if there was standardised rules that says however much you put in the middle counts more than what you say I would abide by it accordingly

[doubleup]

My point about asking the follow up question of "if the chips go in first etc etc" was to see what exactly you were saying when you say it goes as a call in my OP (YOU meaning the people who say this is a call) - Therefore you are saying which ever action happens first, then that is the bet/call.

So, when you say the point in the OP is a call, you are using your "judgement" as by your own terms, you cannot tell which action happens first.

Now someone else's judgement may be that it is a raise, because that was clearly the intention.

There lies the problem.

Nonsense - the two camps are ambiguous = raise or ambiguous = call.  I am in the latter camp because there is less opportunity for angle-shooting.

[Newmanseye]

The verbal declaration stands, for any number of reasons

(a) the guy could have been angle shooting
(b) He could have changed his mind at the last second
(c) serves as a suitable punishment for declaring the wrong action and will be a lesson learned
(d) Its a more manageable standard rule, leaving little or no wiggle room for cheats to prosper.

allowing a raise to stand may help in this situation but not in the many others that will crop up that are similar.

[celtic]

If he has been ambigious ambigg unclear then a call should go to prevent angle shooting.

[Geo the Sarge]

The verbal declaration stands, for any number of reasons

(a) the guy could have been angle shooting
(b) He could have changed his mind at the last second
(c) serves as a suitable punishment for declaring the wrong action and will be a lesson learned(d) Its a more manageable standard rule, leaving little or no wiggle room for cheats to prosper.

allowing a raise to stand may help in this situation but not in the many others that will crop up that are similar.

A man speaks sense.

Player in question asked how much other guy had behind then counted out the raise, placing them across the line saying "call" It was a genuine mistake and again it is difficult to say whether chips crossed the line/hit the felt. Decision was made and accepted. Schoolboy error.............been a while since I have called myself a schoolboy 

Geo

[boldie]

The verbal declaration stands, for any number of reasons

(a) the guy could have been angle shooting
(b) He could have changed his mind at the last second
(c) serves as a suitable punishment for declaring the wrong action and will be a lesson learned(d) Its a more manageable standard rule, leaving little or no wiggle room for cheats to prosper.

allowing a raise to stand may help in this situation but not in the many others that will crop up that are similar.

A man speaks sense.

Player in question asked how much other guy had behind then counted out the raise, placing them across the line saying "call" It was a genuine mistake and again it is difficult to say whether chips crossed the line/hit the felt. Decision was made and accepted. Schoolboy error.............been a while since I have called myself a schoolboy 

Geo

was it you?... you giant angle-shooter

[celtic]

shocking behaviour.

Ban him from blonde NOW!!!!!

[Geo the Sarge]

shocking behaviour.

Ban him from blonde NOW!!!!!

LOL, I agree mate

Geo

[Geo the Sarge]

FWIW the board read:

10 - J - Q - J - A. No str8 flush

I had QQ, holding the 2nd nuts but it was obv he didn't have Aces. No question of an angle shoot.

I made the error, dealer says I was held to a call and I accepted this, no problem. Somone else from the table mentioned it to the TD who agreed with the dealer.

Sometimes we players just have to put our hands up and accept our own mistakes, dealers and TD's have a tough enuff time due to inconsistencies between cardrooms regards rules.

As Billy said.......lesson learnt.

Geo.

[M3boy]

Geo - I am still not convinced that you made a mistake.

There seems to be no hard and fast rule about this and in my mind it was clearly a raise.

FWIW the guy says he would of called with an Ace as well

[Geo the Sarge]

Geo - I am still not convinced that you made a mistake.

There seems to be no hard and fast rule about this and in my mind it was clearly a raise.

FWIW the guy says he would of called with an Ace as well

Thanks Paul,

In my mind I created a situ that I shouldn't have and was happy to accept the ruling. That table, you'll agree, was a fun table and it would have been unfortunate if we had lost that from my stupidity.

Thanks for the Saturday night BTW, look forward to meeting again soon.

Geo

[kinboshi]

Geo - if he'd had aces, you'd have outdrawn him on 6th street anyway.

[Geo the Sarge]

Geo - if he'd had aces, you'd have outdrawn him on 6th street anyway.

Only if He had been you Dan. 

geo