Discussions about: Staking - Betfair Football Trading

[dwh103]

Does anyone have a guess when he started to go bent?

Were the pre Christmas trades kosher?

Because according to the results in the thread he never lost money in early trades.

Just can't see any way the early results are honest. 20-something in a row? He either set out to scam from the start, or he took his investors and friend's money knowing he's a compulsive gambler and would like make horrific decisions. Don't buy the latter either. He's lied and taken advantage of people including friends of mine and he deserves everything he gets.

Gutted for everyone involved, hope you all find some sort of closure to this episode.

I don't know them personally, but I know people who do and I've never heard a bad word said about Kinboshi, George2Loose etc and do not doubt anything either has said in this thread so I hope nobody gives them any grief. Despite what some people are insisting in here, most poker players are 100% honourable and some of the least selfish and most trustworthy people with money I know. I hope an encounter with one rotten egg doesn't destroy your faith in people and serves as a lesson that we should all be careful, even with friends. Set reasonable ground rules on both sides and it stops a genuine misunderstanding blowing up, let alone a scam.

[boldie]

Most people know on here that I trade on betfair for my main income now and Boldie's horse staking thing gave me an idea.

from page1 of http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=43354.msg1015603#msg1015603

Boldies fault Ban Him as well!!

lol, I expected Boshi to come out with that one

[TheSAS]

I have read parts of this thread (I couldn't read it all as it is just too much to take in) and, like everyone, I am horrified by what has happened.

Being a compulsive gambler is an illness and certainly Neil is ill.  However, whilst having sympathy for him because of that does not mean that he should not accept the consequences for his actions.  I'm not sure whether there is any legal action that can be taken as, from what I understand, all the investors had an informal agreement and there is no law covering this.  I sincerely hope that no-one takes any physical retribution as this will get you nowhere.

This may seem naive, but a possible way of retrieving some of the money is for the investors to stake Neil in one of the GUKPT main event games and, if he cashes, take back the winnings.  At the end of the day he is still a good poker player and if you one of you was there to take the winning cash from him at the cash desk, you would get some money back and he couldn't go and gamble it on something else.  As I say, perhaps it is naive, but it is a possible way to get some money back.

[byronkincaid]

blatch is good at poker or a live donk who got lucky a couple of times? his online results seem poor (small sample i know)

[Marky147]

I have read parts of this thread (I couldn't read it all as it is just too much to take in) and, like everyone, I am horrified by what has happened.

Being a compulsive gambler is an illness and certainly Neil is ill.  However, whilst having sympathy for him because of that does not mean that he should not accept the consequences for his actions.  I'm not sure whether there is any legal action that can be taken as, from what I understand, all the investors had an informal agreement and there is no law covering this.  I sincerely hope that no-one takes any physical retribution as this will get you nowhere.

This may seem naive, but a possible way of retrieving some of the money is for the investors to stake Neil in one of the GUKPT main event games and, if he cashes, take back the winnings.  At the end of the day he is still a good poker player and if you one of you was there to take the winning cash from him at the cash desk, you would get some money back and he couldn't go and gamble it on something else.  As I say, perhaps it is naive, but it is a possible way to get some money back.

Hi Neil

This has to be a joe, stake someone who's stolen ridiculous sums of money from his closest friends?

[LeedsRhodesy]

i say you take the £10k off Sofa ( very kind sir)  and give it to BH and let him use it to spin it up on betfair us use it to back flushy into the Wsop main event and take a 50% cut when he wins it

[ScottMGee]

blatch is good at poker or a live donk who got lucky a couple of times? his online results seem poor (small sample i know)

+1 We are not talking Stu Ungar here!

Not personally or financially involved, but naturally very shocked by all of this.

I have played with Neil a couple of times and never took to him (too cocky for me) although I acknowledge this is easy to say now after the event as it it were.

Good luck to everyone, but I would suggest that legal action and writing it off to experience is the the only likely outcome.

[Girgy85]

i say you take the £10k off Sofa ( very kind sir)  and give it to BH and let him use it to spin it up on betfair us use it to back flushy into the Wsop main event and take a 50% cut when he wins it

lol

a) sofa was kind to offer up £10k if he sold his plates for a good profit. Which I now think he has withdrawn for the abuse!
b) why would bh spin up the £10k out of the kindness of his heart?
c) again I'd say flushy has other plans/stake in place

[treefella]

I have read parts of this thread (I couldn't read it all as it is just too much to take in) and, like everyone, I am horrified by what has happened.

Being a compulsive gambler is an illness and certainly Neil is ill.  However, whilst having sympathy for him because of that does not mean that he should not accept the consequences for his actions.  I'm not sure whether there is any legal action that can be taken as, from what I understand, all the investors had an informal agreement and there is no law covering this.  I sincerely hope that no-one takes any physical retribution as this will get you nowhere.

This may seem naive, but a possible way of retrieving some of he money is for the investors to stake Neil in one of the GUKPT main event games and, if he cashes, take back the winnings.  At the end of the day he is still a good poker player and if you one of you [/b]twas there to take the winning cash from him at the cash desk, you would get some money back and he couldn't go and gamble it on something else.  As I say, perhaps it is naive, but it is a possible way to get some money back.

LOL LOL you gotta be on the wind up. the guy blatantly asked for money for staking in vegas and spent the lot.Well over 10k i believe. He also tried to rip off my son by freerollin him whilst he is over in vegas saying when he gets there he will pay him the % dollars he owes him . (he came close to winning over 400k ) And as for him being staked in gukpts ! Why dont we just send him to vegas for the main event and put him up in the Bellagio too  !  

[kinboshi]

Neil used to say that he didn't consider himself a great poker player.  I think he was being truthful when he said that, and as Keith said, his advice on some sports trading (especially tennis) seemed to be very good - so he did have some skills in sports trading.

I'd like to think that he started the staking investment with the idea not to fleece the investors for the entire pot.  Maybe he intended to skim off the top and use that for his own means, and still make the investors a profit.  However, I think that might be the optimist in me, and the more I look at it the more it looks like a scam from the start.  Which makes me an even bigger mug.

Outsiders coming to read this thread (and the original thread) now must think that the investors are all naiive mugs.  To an extent, they're not wrong. 

It's a classic case of 'groupthink', and if only one or two people had invested and more people had raised their scepticism early on, then it wouldn't have got off the ground.  But because of the strong community spirit (or clique as some call it), it made the forum members a prime target for a scam.

Taken from a book called 'Irrationality' by Stuart Sutherland:

"Irving Janis, following George Orwell, has called the tendency for the attitudes of a tightly knit group to become extreme 'Groupthink'.  According to him, the members may develop an illusion of invulnerability coupled with extreme optimism; they ignore inconvenient facts; ... individual members attempt to silence dissent from others in the group; each member suppresses his own doubts in order to confirm; there is an illusion of unanimity..."

Doesn't help me feel like less of an idiot, but does go some way to explain why so many people were taken in, many who would consider themselves fairly intelligent and usually sceptical of schemes like this.

[Graham C]

He used to say he made his money trading on the tennis, was he ever a tennis trader?

[kinboshi]

He used to say he made his money trading on the tennis, was he ever a tennis trader?

I'm no sports betting judge, but from what he advised before the grand slams seemed to show a fair bit of knowledge.  I know he won a fair bit on the French Open last year (the amount he won might have been exaggerated maybe) and I followed his predictions and advice closely and it was pretty much spot on.

[byronkincaid]

was he even an accountant or was that bullshit too? george met him what 2.5 years ago playing poker in a casino? does anyone know him from before this? any schoolfriends, work colleagues, ex girlfriends, anything?

it's all over the internet saying he was an accountant when he won some donkament, when did he say he left work to become a trader?

[The_nun]

Please don't class yourself as an idiot Kinbo, xx So what about the many people in the poker world who have been nipped for tournies and not had it returned, that doesn't make them idiots, just kind people with trust in others.

[kinboshi]

was he even an accountant or was that bullshit too? george met him what 2.5 years ago playing poker in a casino? does anyone know him from before this? any schoolfriends, work colleagues, ex girlfriends, anything?

it's all over the internet saying he was an accountant when he won some donkament, when did he say he left work to become a trader?

No idea.  Wish I'd asked these questions a year ago.