worst river evaaaaaa

[TL900]

PokerStars Hand #104270988887: Tournament #2013090030, $1000+$50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2013/09/17 22:14:32 WET [2013/09/17 17:14:32 ET]
Table '2013090030 13' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Mt.Spewmore (8450 in chips)
Seat 2: hello_totti (7134 in chips)
Seat 3: Talerric (7470 in chips)
Seat 4: Leupho (7490 in chips)
Seat 5: huiiiiiiiiii (7114 in chips)
Seat 6: BecomTheBull (7650 in chips)
Seat 7: joaombrito (7958 in chips)
Seat 8: HITTHEPANDA (6814 in chips)
Seat 9: basebal1b (7420 in chips)
BecomTheBull: posts small blind 10
joaombrito: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mt.Spewmore [ As]
HITTHEPANDA: raises 40 to 60
basebal1b: folds
Mt.Spewmore: raises 120 to 180
hello_totti: folds
Talerric: folds
Leupho: folds
huiiiiiiiiii: calls 180
BecomTheBull: folds
joaombrito: folds
HITTHEPANDA: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [ ]
HITTHEPANDA: checks
Mt.Spewmore: bets 425
huiiiiiiiiii: calls 425
HITTHEPANDA: calls 425
*** TURN *** [ ] []
HITTHEPANDA: checks
Mt.Spewmore: bets 1350
huiiiiiiiiii: calls 1350
HITTHEPANDA: folds
*** RIVER *** [ ] []

We? Pot is 4545 effective stack is 5159

Villian is a tight reg over a medium sample. No table reads v early we have showndown KTs after 3betting pre a few hands before if that has any relevance.

Turn is kinda interesting spot too, on one token I feel like we just have to bet to try and get value vs their strong ranges but on the other side what hands are we really betting this turn with 3 way in a 3bet pot?

[WotRTheChances]

Think c/f is probably best now... you're range is still pretty damn strong and he may well expect you to c/c some stuff like AK, AQ, Axdd and maybe even like TT, so I can't see him bluffing and seems v.thin for a nit to be v-betting worse. He's cold-called pre too, so i'd weight his range towards 66/TT kind of hands. What bluffs can he ever have really?

Can bet-fold like 1900 i guess, but seems like a less good option.

[pleno1]

it seems like a relatively easy c-f. i mean we could bluff vs ak but meh

[TL900]

trivial c/f

fyp

[cambridgealex]

i flat pre here as standard, thoughts?

[pleno1]

vs min raise i 3b-fold think he calls dominated or pairs tht fold later or dominated fds and v rarely 4bets and initiative is important as we win on some boards where wed just fold to a cbet.

[TL900]

vs min raise i 3b-fold think he calls dominated or pairs tht fold later or dominated fds and v rarely 4bets and initiative is important as we win on some boards where wed just fold to a cbet.

Ye basically all this. I used to just flat here adl but Im sorta adjusting my play using this thinking people just don't 4bet enough early levels and when they do they just have very good hands but will peel 3bs pretty wide.

[youthnkzR]

i flat pre here as standard, thoughts?

Same. Rarely ever 3 be this spot tbh. You only have Ace high FFS!

C/f river 100%

[TL900]

we check villian bets 1337, we? still fold?

[Tal]

we check villian bets 1337, we? still fold?

As per my attempt with Mr Goulder's jacks, here goes...

What kind of a hand calls with a guy behind on flop and turn and then leads that river when you check? More accurately, what kind of hand does that that we can beat?

Any sort of Q would have been raising somewhere along the lines, unless it is a weak one, but those weak ones would struggle to lead the river even as a blocker. Just a strange line to me, trying to turn it into a bluff.

You are behind everything betting for value, obviously have a hand of some description and don't seem to me to be able to win the hand with a call.

Was there a case for:

a) leading 1300 on the river to get called by a queen that doesn't believe (we did improve after all)?
b) a check-raise to rep an absolute monster?

I don't think I do either very often, but interested to hear the rationale against.

[TL900]

At the time i felt like his range was all boats/AK and then occasionally Aces and then a super small % of the time AQ, i feel like he'd fold AQ ott though, and might not even cold call pre. Im not sure about that range though. My backer made what i thought was an interesting point, we have the best possible hand we can have in this spot ba quads so if were x/folding this then we dont have a calling range which seems pretty meh.

I think x/r bluffing to try and get him to fold AK/TT is kinda suicidal with the amount of chips we still have in a ridiculously good structured tournament.

[railtard1]

I promise u huiii is not in anyway a tight reg, he is one of the more absurdly aggro regs, or at least he was a few months back.
I flat pre also fwiw.
I think were being way too arrogant /  lazy in assuming he always has 88-qq and AK / AQ when he cold calls the 3bet here in position when stacks are so deep. Ive seen huiii show up with stuff like 89s and KQs in these spots.
Think would c/f vs shove but dnt think id ever find myself folding vs that sizing.
results?

[TL900]

I promise u huiii is not in anyway a tight reg, he is one of the more absurdly aggro regs, or at least he was a few months back.
right, i mean iirc he runs summat like 13/11/4 over like 1k hands lolsample etc

I flat pre also fwiw.
why is flat > 3b pre iyo? i used to just flat like adl here a couple of months ago

I think were being way too arrogant /  lazy in assuming he always has 88-qq and AK / AQ when he cold calls the 3bet here in position when stacks are so deep. Ive seen huiii show up with stuff like 89s and KQs in these spots.
I think arrogant is the wrong word, flawed logic/opinions maybe but certainly not arrogant

Think would c/f vs shove but dnt think id ever find myself folding vs that sizing.
results?
likewise I couldn't fold vs that size, chop it up

[railtard1]

I promise u huiii is not in anyway a tight reg, he is one of the more absurdly aggro regs, or at least he was a few months back.
right, i mean iirc he runs summat like 13/11/4 over like 1k hands lolsample etc

I flat pre also fwiw.
why is flat > 3b pre iyo? i used to just flat like adl here a couple of months ago

I think were being way too arrogant /  lazy in assuming he always has 88-qq and AK / AQ when he cold calls the 3bet here in position when stacks are so deep. Ive seen huiii show up with stuff like 89s and KQs in these spots.
I think arrogant is the wrong word, flawed logic/opinions maybe but certainly not arrogant

Think would c/f vs shove but dnt think id ever find myself folding vs that sizing.
results?
likewise I couldn't fold vs that size, chop it up

he just seems to take off whenever possible from what I have seen, but ive never used a HUD in my life so whatever. 
Yh maybe arrogant is the wrong word, I just mean we shouldn't be so set on a perceived range vs good players when stacks are deeper. FWIW, I love peeling 78s or similar from huiiii's perspective here, especially if other regs will instantly assign us a decently strong range pretty quickly.
Could debate for a while back and forth about flatting > < 3betting pre in these spot, but tbh doubt it would be too interesting :-)

[railtard1]

I promise u huiii is not in anyway a tight reg, he is one of the more absurdly aggro regs, or at least he was a few months back.
right, i mean iirc he runs summat like 13/11/4 over like 1k hands lolsample etc

I flat pre also fwiw.
why is flat > 3b pre iyo? i used to just flat like adl here a couple of months ago

I think were being way too arrogant /  lazy in assuming he always has 88-qq and AK / AQ when he cold calls the 3bet here in position when stacks are so deep. Ive seen huiii show up with stuff like 89s and KQs in these spots.
I think arrogant is the wrong word, flawed logic/opinions maybe but certainly not arrogant

Think would c/f vs shove but dnt think id ever find myself folding vs that sizing.
results?
likewise I couldn't fold vs that size, chop it up

he just seems to take off whenever possible from what I have seen, but ive never used a HUD in my life so whatever. 
Yh maybe arrogant is the wrong word, I just mean we shouldn't be so set on a perceived range vs good players when stacks are deeper. FWIW, I love peeling 78s or similar from huiiii's perspective here, especially if other regs will instantly assign us a decently strong range pretty quickly.
Could debate for a while back and forth about flatting > < 3betting pre in these spot, but tbh doubt it would be too interesting :-)

Also, the discussion on how absurd huiii is or isn't, is kinda irrelevant in this spot, as on the river he has 0 bluffs obv, gona be a chop sometimes, MAYBE he value betting worse sometimes. I actually think given his sizing, ur not beat THAT often. I find it intriguing when people say "c/f 100%" in a spot like this. I don't know if it was mentioned but I guess u have the best possible hand u can have in this spot which makes a c/f even more tilt