So rusty I'm unsure

[Pyso]

I haven't posted for a while due to recently getting married, but I'm now back on the poker trail and enjoying it more than ever.

I have literally just played this hand and would like some feedback as to whether my call is a good or bad one.

It's £0.50/£1 blinds, 9 handed at DTD.

An EP player raises to £3. MP player also calls. I have pocket tens on the button and re-raise to find out where I am (I make it £12 to go). Both players call.

The table has been an action one with a lot of re-raising but players have recently been showing the goods. I am not doing so well after a very satisfying bluff catch that I make is outdrawn, losing me £80. I'm not steaming at all, just a little wary that my luck might be heading in the wrong direction. Anyway, I've recently topped up and am still feeling positive.

Anyway, we have a flop of  Q, J, 10.

I have flopped bottom set but this is a concerning flop as it fits A,K perfectly, as well as a few other hands that might raise from EP such a small amount. He bets out £25. I'm cautious but I'm not going anywhere just yet with a set. I flat call.

The turn is a horrific King. Not what I wanted to see. Now A,Q and A,J have me beaten (in fact any ace does of course).

My read of the player is limited, he seems solid enough but I know nothing about him really.

He pushes all in for £50 odd quid.

I do a quick calculation on the fly and decide it's slightly worse than 3 to 1 to call, assuming my hand is currently beaten, which I feel it may well be. But  I have to factor in the fact that my hand may be good and he may be overplaying a hand like K,Q or Q,J or a medium pocket pair, however unlikely this seems.

I reason that I may well have nine outs to house-up and one for quads, plus three more aces for a split pot.

I am aware that I might not have anywhere near as many outs as this, if indeed he has JJ, QQ or KK

I call nonetheless.

Do you agree?

I'll tell you what he had later if anyone wants to know.

Thanks,

Pyso

[Longy]

Got to shove this flop imo, with the stack sizes.

I agree that is probably a crying call on the turn.

Congrats on the Marriage.

[Amatay]

If u r gonna flat the flop and stick it in on the turn when the worst card peels then u may aswell shove the flop. Kinda need to make a decision on the flop.

[Pyso]

I must admit at the time I never considered shoving on the flop. I just sensed he wasn't messing around so I took the cautious approach.

In hindsight a shove from me may have looked very strong and he may have laid it down but unfortunately I have the hindsight to know that he would have never have laid it down in a million years for the same reason that I didn't!!

Hint, hint!

Also, it occurs to me that I had four more outs (the ) for a split pot.

Anyway, the call still feels ok, but only just. Lol.

[Pyso]

I meant four nines, not the nine of spades. I have nothing against the other suits..

The graphic for the card must come up if you put it in brackets.

[kinboshi]

Congrats on getting wedded .

With the stack sizes, I'm shoving it in on the flop and then shouting 'chips!'.

[david3103]

I must admit at the time I never considered shoving on the flop. I just sensed he wasn't messing around so I took the cautious approach.

In hindsight a shove from me may have looked very strong and he may have laid it down but unfortunately I have the hindsight to know that he would have never have laid it down in a million years for the same reason that I didn't!!

Hint, hint!

Also, it occurs to me that I had four more outs (the ) for a split pot.

Anyway, the call still feels ok, but only just. Lol.

a 9 won't save you if your opp has an A...

[KarmaDope]

I'm getting the feeling this is a set over set in the end?

I shove the flop.

[snoopy1239]

If it were me, I'd just ship it in on the flop, especially because it's a live game. If you're beat, you're beat, but I can't see the value in flatting the flop.

[Pyso]

Thanks for the feedback.
If this was a tourney I would probably have shoved but these spots in cash, for me, are less absolute, which is why I posted.
He had Queens for set over set. Ho hum.

[Thekellster89]

theres no value in drawing to a paired board on the flop, if he has the straight he has the straight but u gotta shippp the flop.

if both both players are giving it action you can pass

[bolt pp]

pls just shove the flop

[MC]

Yeah don't see how you don't shove the flop. Not a board to be playing around with.

Don't understand why being 'cautious' made you flat call here. You have a set, just because 4 potential hands have you beat doesn't mean you are. QQ and AK would probably play stronger preflop so you're losing to approx JJ and J9. Not something you should ever be worried about.


Think we have to assume he has the straight here and not an overset. KQ would be nice but I'd say that's about 1% chance.

So ten outs ftw and three outs for a tie? Just worse than 3 to 1 but includes ties. If you're saying your pot odds are just worse than 3 to 1, a call is okay...

[Almighty]

tough one. you say the tables been v. aggressive with lots of re raising with prem hands. (obv know nothing about the player) with the table showing down good hands you can cut AA and KK from his range as he prob thinks you will be 3bet getting it in so 4bet you pre flop. QQ is tough to know what he'd do, i think generally ur getting less credit button 3betting so i think his line is more 4bet than call. AQ is def poss and obv smaller pocket pairs. this is same with the other caller (who i think you an easily put on smaller pocket pair to 2 broadway cards (no Ace though)

he then comes out firing 25 into a 33.50 pot. this should set off alarm bells. you have just 3 bet him so he has to think that flop should have hit you hard and he has to be rarely bluffing that board into 2 other players. i think he shows up alot of the time with AQ or a hand thats a pair and straight draw like KQ. i think you have to raise this flop though as you have no read and another player poss in the pot.

on the turn however, i think your line has to be to fold. i dont think hes ever shoving that turn with worse hand that ur T's even though it's poss you do have outs. also, when i was playing .5/1 alot of players are scared there not going to get paid on there hands so like the straight out pot bets. this isnt jokerstars aswell so its not some bum whos seen a tv advert and is a complete monkey, playing on D T D suggests the guys a thinking player and would slow down the turn with a weaker hand than yours.

neway, i think best line is getting it in on the flop, letting him crush your soul. *sigh* nh.

[Longy]

tough one. you say the tables been v. aggressive with lots of re raising with prem hands. (obv know nothing about the player) with the table showing down good hands you can cut AA and KK from his range as he prob thinks you will be 3bet getting it in so 4bet you pre flop. QQ is tough to know what he'd do, i think generally ur getting less credit button 3betting so i think his line is more 4bet than call. AQ is def poss and obv smaller pocket pairs. this is same with the other caller (who i think you an easily put on smaller pocket pair to 2 broadway cards (no Ace though)

he then comes out firing 25 into a 33.50 pot. this should set off alarm bells. you have just 3 bet him so he has to think that flop should have hit you hard and he has to be rarely bluffing that board into 2 other players. i think he shows up alot of the time with AQ or a hand thats a pair and straight draw like KQ. i think you have to raise this flop though as you have no read and another player poss in the pot.

on the turn however, i think your line has to be to fold. i dont think hes ever shoving that turn with worse hand that ur T's even though it's poss you do have outs. also, when i was playing .5/1 alot of players are scared there not going to get paid on there hands so like the straight out pot bets. this isnt jokerstars aswell so its not some bum whos seen a tv advert and is a complete monkey, playing on D T D suggests the guys a thinking player and would slow down the turn with a weaker hand than yours. 

neway, i think best line is getting it in on the flop, letting him crush your soul. *sigh* nh.

It was all going so well till you said this.

Standard of players on the average $1/2 (equivalent of £.5/1) on stars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> average £.5/1 DTD player.

Fwiw i have played in both of these games in the last 12 months.