Prose from a Poshboy

[cambridgealex]

Busted

@cambridgealex: Spinks c/r Q94ssx I 3bet to 10.2k he peels, I jam brick turn for 20k ish, he calls Q8o and holds. Just chilling in the stands now...

[pleno1]

what you have?

[cambridgealex]

Maybe should check back turn.

[SuuPRlim]

Alex where will you be playing cash games in LV?

[cambridgealex]

Alex where will you be playing cash games in LV?

I don't know David. I liked the Aria and the Wynn the most so perhaps there.

[cambridgealex]

Sigh kinda feel I butchered my exit hand. Spoke to Spinks after the day finished. He seemed to imply I didn't have much of a value range for 3betting the flop, and it was always draws basically. He pretty much owned me to call off there with top pair weak kicker.

I should flat the flop c/r.

As played check back turn.

It's to hard butcher 15 outers. But it can be done apparently. Sigh.

[gouty]

Where it says spinks c/r flop is it you or him that c/ r ?

[JK]

Dont think its really butchered, think he played the hand pretty bad tbh (I know hes a sicko but still).

Dont like his c/r for a start, peeling the 3bet is also pretty bad. Ik he says he doesnt think you have a value range that >Q8, but if your hand is always draws, its almost always gonna be huge as you're not just gonna go crackers with a bare 6 high flush draw or JTo.

The flop 3b probably isnt great, but its definitely not the biggest mistake in the hand. It does look like he's owned you, but honestly think he's ran v well to get it in in such good shape.

[wazz]

I don't like his play either but w/e, he is top top class so what do I know. I would likely have played your hand exactly the same.

Aria and Wynn are good shouts for where to spend your time, both are well-run cardrooms and have good games. Will probably see you out there.

[cambridgealex]

It was a really eye opening hand to be honest, and the little chat I had with him and Sykes after about it was especially eye opening.  Because he just thought about things in a totally different way to me, and I think it's absolutely stupid of me to think "I'd never do that, that's got to be bad" when he says something I'd never do. It's far better to work out why he's doing it and try and think outside the box.

We're all just so set in our ways sometimes your game becomes stagnant and then you come up against someone very good and he does something different and it's like, wow wtf.

If I'm him with Q8 on Q94ssx, I just never c/raise. same if I had A9, or T9, I'd just never c/r, I'd 100% call. And so would all the people around me - we all play pretty similar because we've talked hands and strategy so much and sort of "learnt" the game together. So we just expect other "pros" and grinders who you respect to see things the same as you, and you "expect" them to play similar, and just call the flop with Q8. But then when you talk to other groups of players, and they're like "nah I think it's good because I thought you'd 3b bluff the flop loads and I can jam over the top and protect my hand, or call and decide based on the turn card/ action/read, I also think calling turns my hand more faceup, I can get value from worse one pair hands that won't believe me and would have checked back future streets if I just c/call and I don't think it's an issue that we're in a "tough" spot when the flop gets 3bet because I think you're range to 3bet the flop is unbalanced and includes so many more semibluffs and pure bluffs than value hands like AQ+"

Hmm, yeh, that all makes sense. Dang.

Pretty interesting anyway.

In truth, I don't know whether I 3b the flop with AQ KK, AA. I think I would. Gonna put it through flopzilla and work out my range combos wise for 3betting the flop and see if it is that unbalanced so that his play with Q8 is justified. The draws I do it with are all fkn strong draws though - pretty much gonna be the nut flush draw or the hand I hand. Maybe a KJss hand that has a gutshot too. Pretty sure I'll have enough sets (7combos), two pairs and AQ+ to balance those draws. I guess he expected me to 3bet the flop with a bunch of pure bluffs too with backdoor equtiy like A5dd.

Anyway, wtf am I doing up at 9am again. Back to sleep before the sunday grind...

[George2Loose]

^^^^was thinking the same. I think u probably flat your value hands on a wet board. Also c/r flop seems to happen way more in the games I'm playing. Trends maybe shifting. Gotta try and keep up. Get there next time?

[Mondeoman]

Seems to me like he's abs crushed when you 3 bet the flop.  Unless you're bad aggro why would you 3 bet bluff this flop when there's some value hands and so many draws he can just 4 bet jam on you with.  If you would actually bluff this flop a lot then jam the turn then yeah he's owned you.  However if you're just 3 betting the flop with big draws and big hands his plays pretty terrible - guess only you know what your actual range is here.  Also defending q8 oop versus the monte Carlo champ can't be a great play either.  Either way wouldn't beat yourself up about it like you said it's pretty hard to butcher a hand when your forcing chips in with 15 outs.

[dreenie]

Seems to me like he's abs crushed when you 3 bet the flop.  Unless you're bad aggro why would you 3 bet bluff this flop when there's some value hands and so many draws he can just 4 bet jam on you with.  If you would actually bluff this flop a lot then jam the turn then yeah he's owned you.  However if you're just 3 betting the flop with big draws and big hands his plays pretty terrible - guess only you know what your actual range is here.  Also defending q8 oop versus the monte Carlo champ can't be a great play either.  Either way wouldn't beat yourself up about it like you said it's pretty hard to butcher a hand when your forcing chips in with 15 outs.

 

[Honeybadger]

Don't know who this John Spinks guy is. But he's played his hand very badly IMO.

[redsimon]

Don't know who this John Spinks guy is. But he's played his hand very badly IMO.

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=94122