Ched Evans

[arbboy]

If you dont believe he did that (like me) then its probably ok to feel sorry for him

I agree.  I don't know if he did or he didn't.  What i am pretty sure of is that he has probably done nothing different to what a lot of footballers have probably done abusing their status with young pretty female fans.  There must be a lot of footballers thinking 'thank fuck it wasn't me'

[bobby1]

In a liberal objective way I think it's right he should carry on his career - but I think the natural response from most people would be that they wouldn't really want to employ or work with a convicted rapist, or to be associated with them in any way. I think it's a bit odd if people can't understand that's where the protests against him come from.

4 football clubs have wanted to employ him.  And I'm fairly sure those who sign these petitions aren't the prospective team mates.  So as far as I can see the protests against him aren't from the employers or employees, but from people online who have to fill their hours and make themselves feel important, as opposed to allowing a man to serve his sentence and then try and rebuild his career.

30,000 people signed the Oldham petition.  In the context of how many people attend football or watch it every weekend it's tiny.

There are 64 million people in the UK and its being described a public outcry that 30,000 of them singed an online petition tho. Media have set out their stall when he was released and are going to stick to it. Think it was reported as about 160,000 people signed the last online petition, so 130,000 that did vote then didn't this time.

[horseplayer]

If you dont believe he did that (like me) then its probably ok to feel sorry for him

I agree.  I don't know if he did or he didn't.  What i am pretty sure of is that he has probably done nothing different to what a lot of footballers have probably done abusing their status with young pretty female fans.  There must be a lot of footballers thinking 'thank fuck it wasn't me'

Neither do i. I am going more on the actual evidence that was presented but anyway had this debate about five times on this thread already

[DMorgan]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

[arbboy]

There seems to be so much talk about not wanting Evans playing for your club/people not being willing to work with a convicted rapist etc in these online polls.

What would you do if you were sitting at DTD playing cash and Evans sat down next to you for the evening?  It's easy to sit online and tick these online surveys etc but they mean nothing if you don't back it up with your own actions.  

[arbboy]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

More than 50% but not all.

[DungBeetle]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

Well I think the default position has to be that he is guilty surely as a jury with more access to the facts made a considered decision. 

That said, he still has the right to appeal if he thinks an incorrect judgement has been made. 

The question is what does society do with him when he has finished his custodial sentence but has yet to have final appeal?

[bobby1]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

[George2Loose]

His job doesn't come into it- it's the whole "role model" argument.

I really am on the fence on this one. Assuming he is guilty I can see both sides of the argument but ultimately if he is guilty then he's going to end up paying a huge price for his crime if no one decides to employ him

[arbboy]

His job doesn't come into it- it's the whole "role model" argument.

I really am on the fence on this one. Assuming he is guilty I can see both sides of the argument but ultimately if he is guilty then he's going to end up paying a huge price for his crime if no one decides to employ him

He is going to pay a huge price even if someone does employ him as he wages will be 10% of what they would be plus 3 years of not earning at all in his prime years.

[The Camel]

Plus asking an Arsenal fan if he wants a player to join them who is miles below 1st team standard who is a convicted rapist seems a pretty pointless question.

On the general point that was made - do you think most people wouldn't mind working with a convicted rapist then?

Most poker players sit and play willingly with criminals every time they play to various degrees.  There was a dtd reg who went down for child offences in the last 12 months in a multi year sentence.

In a football environment i don't think the average footballer would care less about Evan's history if he helped him earn his win bonuses every week with his goals.

And didn't the dtd reg get threatened?

[arbboy]

Plus asking an Arsenal fan if he wants a player to join them who is miles below 1st team standard who is a convicted rapist seems a pretty pointless question.

On the general point that was made - do you think most people wouldn't mind working with a convicted rapist then?

Most poker players sit and play willingly with criminals every time they play to various degrees.  There was a dtd reg who went down for child offences in the last 12 months in a multi year sentence.

In a football environment i don't think the average footballer would care less about Evan's history if he helped him earn his win bonuses every week with his goals.

And didn't the dtd reg get threatened?

No because no body knew i assume until he was sentenced (when he obviously was no longer a dtd reg) and is still inside now i assume.

[The Camel]

How many of the people that believe that he's innocent of any crime do we think will change their view if the judicial review upholds his conviction?

I would like to think that would be the end of it and I would accept he is guilty, I think he is much closer to guilty than innocent at the moment. There is a different side to that tho, If he is found to have been incorrectly jailed how many people that think he is guilty now will change their minds?

There seem to be a lot of people that won't accept there is a chance he was wrongly convicted and are very vocal, in my eyes they have left themselves no outs whatsoever. That includes most of the people making a living/improving their PR by deciding to add their views in print or on TV.

What is happening at the moment tho is he is guilty, has served his prison sentence yet people are trying to stop him from working in an industry where people jailed for killing old men and kids are currently working after serving jail terms. Does that sound fair?

For me anyway it isn't really about Ched Evans. The identity of the rapist is irrelevent.

It's about a moral line in the sand.

Does anyone seriously think a paedo or murderer out on license should be allowed to play professional football?

For me rape crosses that line too. People go to football to get away from real life. Escapism if you like. They do not need an unrepentant rapist performing in front of them.

Lee Hughes and Luke McCormack came very close to crossing that line for me, but what they did was an accident.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Ched Evans is cleared, go ahead, resume your football career. But while you are still claiming innocence when a jury and then 3 appeal judges say you are guilty, stay away please.

[The Camel]

Plus asking an Arsenal fan if he wants a player to join them who is miles below 1st team standard who is a convicted rapist seems a pretty pointless question.

On the general point that was made - do you think most people wouldn't mind working with a convicted rapist then?

Most poker players sit and play willingly with criminals every time they play to various degrees.  There was a dtd reg who went down for child offences in the last 12 months in a multi year sentence.

In a football environment i don't think the average footballer would care less about Evan's history if he helped him earn his win bonuses every week with his goals.

And didn't the dtd reg get threatened?

No because no body knew i assume until he was sentenced (when he obviously was no longer a dtd reg) and is still inside now i assume.

He posted on here.

If I remember correctly he didn't get a custodial sentence.

[TightEnd]

he was jailed for 12 months and is now out (assuming we are all talking about the same person)

it primarily "broke" and became a "scandal" on facebook, though he did have a few posts on here from live update threads going back over the years