blonde poker forum

I'm creating a very healthy "wage" through horses for the last couple of month, but the profit is getting affected quite heavily by tampering with online BJ & roulette at quiet periods and even more do with the machines inside the bookies. It's incredibily frustrating because I haven't touched these things since March, now I'm hooked again lol.

Is it possible to self ban?

I think on Sky you can self ban certain areas, yes. Not too sure about other online bookies.

As for High Street - no chance, they can barely police when you self ban yourself from the entire place so they arent gonna let you in to place bets and then keep an eye on you to throw you out when you try to play FOBT.

Online - you can Self-Exclude on any reputable Gaming Site that subscribes to Responsible Gaming & the likes of GamCare.

However, please be careful in deciding what period to Self-Exclude for - these Self-Excludes are NOT REVERSIBLE IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. If you choose to Self-Exclude for 5 years, 5 years it is, no exceptions.

I have no idea what the situation is in B & M premises. Pretty hard to enforce a Self Exclude in such cases.  

Aaron, if you can't walk past a roulette table, you need to take responsibility for the situation and asking the online site you use to ban you isn't doing that. There will always be another little wheel somewhere for you to hand over your money.

If you have a gambling problem, you need to take ownership and deal with the causes, so that one day, hopefully, you can make conscious choices about whether you want a flutter in the future.

Barring yourself from your local pub and the corner shop won't stop you from being an alcoholic. And if the corner shop refuses to bar you, you can't hold them responsible for you drinking.

It's easily made light of, especially in a community such as this, but we all have to be vigilant of the perils we've all seen befall people.

Sorry that this is such a dark answer, but I hope it's taken in the spirit it's intended.

Thanks for the replies & definitely not disagreeing with you Tal, but such a funny situation. I don't log into a online bookie to play games or slots, just to place a bet on a certain sport (mainly horses), but if I'm in front of a desktop (this is mainly at Uni) I can take spins at certain games and its frustrating to see, because 9/10 it affects the weekly profit.

Machines are incred frustrating though, rennet posting on here months ago about them and was able to go 3-4 months without putting a penny in a d suddenly I'm on them again & I hate losing on them, I can take losing £100+ on a horse fine, but losing on these just does my nut in, funny thing is that I hate roulette anywhere else.

From the above replies I think it's impossible to ban machines, but going to get in touch with online to see if I can block interactive games, although loss on them is minimal, but frustrating at the same time.

why is losing £100 on a horse different to losing £100 on a slot or table game?

The end result is the same, but if he thinks he has an edge on the horses then he might feel the bet was good value and long-term +EV?  I guess it's the same as losing £100 on a hand of poker, rather than on the slots.  I'd say losing £100 on the slots is inevitable if you play them enough, whereas if you're a 'winning' poker player, losing £100 on a hand could be a cooler, variance, bad-beat, etc.

But I want to echo Tal's comments and if you can't stop playing these games you maybe ought to get help?

If you are half decent at poker and you pick your frequency and game selection carefully  you have a decent chance of winning over a period of time

If you are half decent at sports and horse betting and you pick your frequency and game selection carefully you also have a decent chance of winning over a period of time

Whilst I accept there are luck elements in both poker and betting on horses/ sports etc  with roulette and most casino house games (excl blackjack) you are hoping to get lucky all the time(no skill factor)

The worst offenders however are the terminals in bookmakers

The trouble with the terminals is there is no luck involved...the machines are not random and have a pre determined pay out. I know people that will wait till a player has put in a few hundred quid and try their luck...they may get lucky and win a little on the tail end of somebody elses loss but wins generally wins are few and far between .

I understand what happens in bookies in between races ,people get bored and start getting involved and before they know it they are in deep trying to recover loses from a terminal that's actually regulated by the bookies themselves.

Its estimated that at least 60 % of all high street bookmakers profit is now coming from these terminals and they are opening more and more branches just to accommodate these machines . They are allowed a max of 4 each shop but 60 % is an incredible figure

You may get lucky for a few spins  but percentage wise over a period of time   You Cannot Beat These Machines    FACT  !!

Aaron....seriously you need to give them a wide berth  immediately

Fraser has hit the nail on the head completely.

You go up to these machines and they have something like "72% win payout" and that is nowhere near the odds you should be getting when playing BJ or roulette and like Fraser says, these are not random number generator machines & the worst thing they are just completely expanding. The number of games they offer on these machines in unreal, they are adding several types of roulette and BJ (adding side bets) and even reward cards, I have probably span £2k on these over the last 3 weeks & I have not got anywhere near to a £5 reward LOL.

There is definitely a problem for me, it perhaps does not affect my life or even too much financially, but in the same terms they are, if you know what I am getting at. It was so frustrating to have 3-4 months off these & get back on board with them, damn you!

Lose £100 on a horse, dog, football, snooker, poker, live blackjack is all fine it happens, but lose £100 on these machines and it pisses me off much more than losing it elsewhere for the fact I know these are corrupt

The fobts are random but the game of roulette has a built in -EV margin.

If you get your head around the fact that every time you spin £10 on the machine you may as well throw 37 pence in the bin that may help. I used to play table games in the casino after poker or in breaks, but as I improved at poker and began to understand variance more it simply dawned on me how ridiculous it is to play games that have built in house edge.

Sports betting is different as although there is a house edge like bookies over rounds or betfairs commission there is still room for profit if you are very selective and can get on.

I have worked in betting shops for 24 years and never seen  a winning punter on fobts. There you are. Surely that is incentive enough not to play them.

Just before I break this post down, I just want to say this is not typical "aaron is right" attitude i'm going to get at, but I think you are wrong in the first bit, surely?

The odds in a casino on roulette & BJ are so much different to the mahcines in the bookies, the casino has a 0.? edge, whilst the machine is % payout, so before you get on you know you this machine will win daily. Surely if it was a random number generator then they can't guarantee what % they are going  to win or lose! You put £1000 into those machines, they are paying out £720.

I know there is no winner, hence why I want to quit.

I am pretty young age and I am one of the few that love horse racing & I am lucky enough not to go into the bookies and hit the machines like the younger generation, however I can hit them and just wish I didn't at all. Could you hazard a guess to how many little independent bookies have in their shops?

Hang on.

Say a fruit machine is 80% payout and the shop is open for 10 hours, taking £100 an hour from various poppers-in. What you are saying is, over the course of the day, every day it pays out exactly £800? That cannot be true and you're not a complete idiot, so that can't be what you mean.

Payout and house edge are one and the same (albeit one is the balance of the other). When you bet on a machine that has an 80% payout, you are effectively betting on an even money shot at 0.8-1. Some days you win a fortune, just as you can flip fifty heads in a row. Some days you lose your shirt, vest and nipple clamps. Mistress Variance decides which are which.

The machine can't win every single day. That wouldn't make sense, as unless there were a point where it refused to pay out any wins at all until it took £x more in (which regular punters would cotton on to), it couldn't regulate itself. What if no one played all day and then someone stuck one credit in? Would it be obliged to ensure the punter lost? No.

All it needs to do to be profitable is have the odds in its favour and as much money coming in as possible, to mitigate against variance. It sets the odds at A/1 and the payout at B/1, where A>B and, over an infinite sample...

Profit = N(A-B) where N is the number of pounds spent.

Random number generators just help the punter to know they can have a really good day, which is all we want to have a flutter.

By all means, tell me if I'm talking out of my posterior.

The machines in the bookies are completely random.
They also run at very high RTPs. much closer to casino games than you think.
Usually in the high 90's
Can't explain the workings, but take it from a compliance manager in a slots development compay, they are :)
Still means you can't beat them, but the swings experienced will be very similar to those seen on a casino table game.
The edge is built into the maths, the same as they are in a table game.

Fruit machines in pubs are different. The are compensated, which is to say they adjust their behaviour based on their current RTP.
That absolutely doesn't happen in FOBTs

if these are random number generators, then how can they guarantee the payout?

A computer only does what you program to do it, then only does what you tell it to do when using it

It is a guaranteed payout. Just not necessarily to you.

Otherwise, the only way it could guarantee doing it correctly would be, every time you put a pound in, it whirs, flashes some lights, makes a ding ding and then drops four twenty pence pieces into the tray for you.

Tal you really do come across as patronising sometimes.

Yeah, this.

Appreciated his bluntness earlier, but disappointing last couple of posts.

the reason the roulette table has an edge built into it is the correct odds aren't being paid out for the actual chances of an event.
there are 18 odd, 18 even and 1 niether, but it pays evens
18 red, 18 black and 1 niether, but it pays evens
same with all the other bets.
If you remove the 0 from a roulette wheel, it pays as 100% dead.
The house edge on every single bet on the roulette table is 2.7%.
Doesn't matter a jot where you place your chips.
The profit the make from the player however is NOT that 2.7%, because people are churning their money.
The "hold" is far higher.

As I say, it would be improper of me to discuss the details of how slots work, but I can promise you that the finishing positions of the reels is completely random, and every out come is possible on every spin. each game is an independant event.

Don't think Tal is being patronising at all.

You can't possibly gamble for a living without understanding this mathematical principle.

Wasn't my intention but I wholeheartedly apologise, as I appreciate I have caused offence.

Having seen these machines in operation I dont believe they are random number generators either( despite bookies claims.)

whether Im right or wrong goutys statement sums it up

"I have worked in betting shops for 24 years and never seen  a winning punter on fobts "

Stay Away    :)

I am an independent shop. We have 4 fobts. None of them have gtd % payouts as I think that is more for pub machines.

They are random I can assure you. It is also now the most regulated part of the business as we are asking kids for ID all day long then banning them if they keep coming in without ID. We even have a sign now stating " if you look under 21 and do not have ID please do not enter".

Just underneath the "Arbers F... Off" sign actually.

Roulette has roughly a 3% house edge.

That doesn't mean if £1000 is put in £970 is paid out though.

The money is recycled over and over again, with a theoretical 3% edge on each spin.

So if you stake £1000 evenly over the wheel you will get £970 back on one spin, reinvest the 970 you will get 941 or so back.

It won't take long before you've pretty much done your grand

exactly the difference between theoretical RTP and "Hold"

but you're dfinitely wrong :)

being random and being possible to win long term are different questions entirely.

If we roll a perfectly good dice a million times and I pay you 4/1 every time a 6 lands, you can't beat the game.
Doesn't stop the dice being random

Put the same bet on with a casino

Put the same bet on with a machine

pretty confident I know which one is making more money ;)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/27/roulette-machines-crack-cocaine-gambling

Good article.

My old man used to have club machines at his place that were set to payout at 78%, but it was over every 23000 plays, not every £100/£500 that was put in, and I always thought that the FOBTs would be the same.

I used to be tempted but it helps if I only leave the house with the exact amount I plan to place on the horses or sporting bets. No cards, extra or temping amounts to use on anything else apart from the scheduled bet I believe I have an edge on.

I reckon the a roulette wheel in a casino will be making more money than a single FOBT - the limits are higher.

You get a huge amount more spins on a FOBT though

Exactly the same as the arguments about there being more bad-beats online.  As a ratio to hands dealt it's the same as live, but yes, as you see more hands when it's a computer dealing rather than a live game.

I guess that's why the article refers to them as 'crack cocaine of gambling'.

But in answer to Aaron's question (which wasn't actually a question, but I'm answering it anyway) - the same bet on a live roulette wheel and on a FOBT - the expected return will be the same.

And this is why you are much more likely to win at a live casino than at an online casino or on a FOBT.

The sample size is a lot smaller so you are more likely to run +ev and beat the odds.

we don't do FOBT roulette, so wouldn'y be able to confidently talk about them either way.
Do they definitely have 97.2% as an advertised RTP?

£100 spin in a casino x 100 v £100 spin in a bookies x 100

I am pretty sure who will make the most.

I don't know if these machines are rigged or not, but I do know that they are simply computers that are programmed to do as they are told, they create significantly more loss than I do in a casino and they already have labelled on them % payout, if it was completely random number generator, then how can it be guaranteed. These machines are not allowed in other countries.

I think they are fixed, perhaps I am a sore loser?

Anyway, think this is totally missing the point

Yep, same probability, but you're able to realise the long-term EV (i.e. guarantee a loss).

You are "pretty sure" you will do better at the casino.

I will lay you 4/5 to as much as you like that you will win more on at the casino, having the same bets on both.

Very good odds about something you are pretty sure about I think!

I understand odds & dont want a full blown argument but your statement is based on the machines being 100% random , we could ask a bookies spokeman but what do you think they would say ?

Youve given a comparison of a perfectly good dice versus a terminal  ....the dice is obviously random but we dont know the terminals are hence I dont think your comment of "definitely wrong"  is fair.

Its my opinion from what I have seen they are not random , and I would wager money on returns being higher on a live roulette machine (same stakes etc )

Aaron has said £100 v £100 but of course this would be pretty difficult to prove a winner as the sample size would need to be a lot bigger.

What you saying Keith ?  you dont agree with Aaron or you just want to effectively take 5-4 on the terminal ?    :)

Bookmakers have zero incentive to have fixed machines on their premises. We get bad enough press without that too. The RGNs are audited by PWC which is the same lot that scrutinise the Lotto. I agree however that the speed of play is very different to casino play which is why you feel lose more when in fact you are losing more quickly.

As a punter one of my biggest leaks is gambling whilst pissed, but I realise this and also recognise that I really enjoy it too.

As an operator if anyone comes in drunk to play the machines I kick em out straight away as I can't know wether they are as self disciplined as me!

Both!

If you think the machines are "rigged" then why do you play them?

I'm a member of a fruit machine forum and I hear the same tired line over and over again.

People claim they're "rigged" because they are looking to blame someone/thing other than themselves for the fact they are losing.

As an example let's take Rainbow Riches POG. Load the game up and you will be treated to some text along the lines of:

"This game is random and pays to 90%."

This can be translated to:

"If you play this game then in the long term you will LOSE"

So if you play it and don't win what are you surprised about? Yeah, throw a cheeky £20 in and you might get lucky and get pots. But more often than not you'll lose your £20. But if it's just an every now and then thing then no big deal as you're paying for the entertainment. But sit down and have a session though and suddenly £20 can turn into £500+ in no time. But these are very high variance games. Even at 100% being over £500 in wouldn't be hard to do. And the continual 50p/£1 wins that get recycled won't help you either.

When a random game says it's at 90% what it means is out of (for example) 1,000,000 combinations of the reels if you add all the prizes from each combination it'll come to £900,000. When you press start you'll be randomly given one of those combinations. And that's it.

There's no need for it to be rigged. How do they guarantee a profit? The same ways casinos do: Mathematics.

The laws of maths doesn't mean that they are guaranteed profit, it just shows edge.

Anyway, think discussion has been done over now.

Well you could argue that....

"This game is random and pays to 90%."

....means they are rigged.  I think people just underestimate the power of that figure.  Even if they pay at 97% (correct for roulette I think) if you assumed 5 spins a minute at £10 a spin you would lose £90 an hour and many people are betting a lot more than a tenner a spin.  In a casino you would be lucky to get a spin every 3minutes and your losing rate would be £6 an hour which is within the realms of "entertainment" spending.

No, they do. That's the important bit that people don't understand.

If a game is purely random then over time it WILL hit its target %.

It doesn't matter if people have got "lucky" or "unlucky", the maths states that it will still hit that % over time.

This discussion is lame.

If it's a random number generator, there is a chance that every single bet that a person has that it can hit the numbers that the person wants, it's a mathematical possibility!

This Statement is True !  As long as its 100 % random

Are you saying both betting office terminals and fruit machines are 100 % random ?....the same as throwing a straight dice or flipping a coin for example ?

It's not. The world is built on such random events converging towards an expected outcome. Go and grab a statistics textbook :)

p.s. I fail to see how this discussion is lame when you are asking questions about something where you clearly have no fundamental understanding of how they work. Instead you, and others, throw around terms like "they're rigged" etc as you'd rather believe that and blame others than admit you don't understand them and have a problem.

Betting shop machines/casino games/casino slots are 100% random (but obviously, with the payouts not totaling the number of outcomes, hence they pay a certain %).

This does NOT apply to fruit machines, which work completely differently.

So there is no mathematical chance of me putting £1 on red for the next 100 spins and the next 100 spins being red?

I also think you need to read back btw :)

Well, I've worked out the odds of that happening. What do you think they are?

But in short... no.

I'd imagine it is possible, but very unlikely.

But in short there is no mathematical chance of this happening?

How can this be confirmed ?  ..I just find it really difficult to believe that a terminal is as random as a flip of a coin or real roulette wheel etc...here to be proved wrong.

I should clarify that "no" isn't quite the right word there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_surely

if you want more info.

For the record the odds are

1 in 1267650600228229401496703205376 (assuming a genuine 50% chance - otherwise the odds are even worse)

But still a possibility of course.

They are regulated and independently tested. gouty might be able to give more info as he works in a bookies, or you can check the GC website for more info.

I do accept that it's harder to "trust" a computer than a real world object. But that doesn't mean they're not fair.

If you consider a number of that magnitude to be a possibilty then sure, why not. Go and place a bet on a roulette wheel hitting red 100 times in a row.

But I should hope I've made my point. If an event is purely random then over time it's impossible to beat it if the odds are stacked against you.

If you want to believe otherwise then go for it.

This thread is so tilting.  Fraser - the random number generators on machines are regularly checked by world leading auditors.  Not sure how much more proof you want.  Aaron - you are taking pedantry to levels that even you have not managed before.

I suppose we can debate all night...I just dont trust them...One thing that is a fact ....in the long run you will end up a loser   !!

Stay away Aaron

No more to discuss on the subject   :)

I voiced an opinion.....if it tilts you thats your problem.

Aaron has an opinion too, again whether he is right or wrong  you dont need to be so rude

It is fine to voice an opinion  but it is almost pointless debating with people who just voice the same opinion over and over again as though they didn't bother to take into account anyone elses views.  In this case we are talking about actual maths....it isn't about opinion there is mathematical fact and a lot of people have spent a lot of time trying to educate only to get the final response of effectively "meh I still think it is wrong".  Now of course that is absolutely your right but it is a bit like trying to explain to a kid why 2+2=4 only for the child to say "no I still think it is 5".  In your case Fraser it is a bit more subtle but why exactly do you think that a company such as PWC with annual turnover in the billions would take a contract to audit machines which is probably worth about £100k a year and then lie about the random number generators being random?  Do you really think that is in their interest or do you think that your observations are more valid than their study?

Don't ever come to Kracked Kings Stu :D

I've just had a similar discussion with someone else, not for the same thing, but similar situation.

Basically the fact is for some reason you get a buzz/thrill of excitement by playing these things, whether its just an ego thing about trying to 'beat' these games only u can answer that. You say you are a professional gambler, I cannot believe this statement if you are takin the time to lose money on these kind of games. There's nothing professional about being a punter, think of these machines as evil, they are learing you into a dark place u really don't wanna go down, I have seen first hand people lose everything over these sort of addictions, your personality changes, it's no good for health, why put yourself through this ?, I don't understand it, surely there comes a point in your life where u say enough is enough?, go spend £100 on a new pair of jeans or something, take your mum out for dinner do something useful with That £100, why would u wanna put it in a bookies pocket where u clearly state yourself u have no edge? Do u enjoy seeing the shareholders or whoever driving around in Mercedes Benz cars knowing that you have help contributed to it?

U can go on any online gaming site and they will disable the casino games for you, but u can reinstate these at any time u wish, so kind of defeats the object.

The only way u will stop is by taking the advice given to you, and putting it into practise. Think before u act. Think of the consequences of what your actions will bring, how u will feel when u ultimately lose, do whatever u need to do before your problem gets bigger and u end up ruining your life, looking back thinking what if I hadn't done this or that.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's a natural part of life, but at some point there comes a time where u have to stand up and say 'enough is enough, I don't wanna be like this anymore', maybe u will have to go rock bottom for this to happen to you, I'm telling u this now before u get to that point, it's not nice and it's a very lonely, dark place down there.

Hope u can get it sorted, gl.

I did mention in my post that I am a compliance manager of a games developer who makes these games.
We make slots for LBOs, online and mobile.

I guess you have no particular reason to trust my integrity, but I can state from a position of knowledge that the machines are completely random. When we use a device such as a virtual dice, wheel, pack of cards, etc, the chances have to be as per the physical device.

It is theoretically possible for you to spin multiple jackpots inon consecutive spins, but the chances are obviously astronomical.

The games are all rigorously tested for fairness by certified third party companies and we're HEAVILY regulated by UKGC for UK machines and various bodies like AGCC, IOM and LGA Malta for
Online

Up to you if you decide to believe me or not :)

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

This is my new favourite site!!

Sorry to be blunt Aaron but as a couple of people have said  (deffo not patronising imo) earlier you are the owner of the problem, you make the choices you do and you have to choose not to play these things. I'm a fat lad but I cannot blame Starbuck's coz sometimes I cannot resist a bit of carrot cake and a big latte instead of black coffee and a pot of fruit and it's deffo my fault if I get fatter when eating them. Complaining that Starbies sell those things would be me deflecting the blame.

I guess I would count as a rep saying things are all str8 but they really are, the edge is in the math not the reels. I know one thing, the amount of these machines around is getting ridiculous imo and is one of the real reasons bookies are restricting betting accounts. They have found a way to chop it right off thru scalping turnover on these machines than gambling with punters.

I know they are a loss maker, just frustrating I can't stop taking the odd spin on them!

That is your little Gambling Imp on your shoulder. When a person learns to say " No. That's shit odds mate" to house edge games  and remember  to say "Yes. I am all in" when equity and BRM allows them to, all is well.

Just do that for 3 months and see where you are.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

You CAN stop taking the odd spin on them, if you choose to.

Aaron, I don't don't know you but I can help you. PM me if you want that help. It will cost you, as what I have to offer is a professional service, but it will be a lot cheaper than the odd £100 spin. I also don't offer any guarantee but I can demonstrate past successes.

I'm not going to go into details on a public forum so if anyone wants to know any more on this please PM me. Any conversation I have with Aaron will remain between him and I.

Stuart

He'll make you read his 'Guess the Drink' thread.

also a choice, unless you are a paid Mod of course  ;)

Not many of them though.

Assuming that Aaron has finished levelling everyone with his knowledge of probability and returning to the original purpose of the thread, the potential gambling problem, I have a suggestion.

Reading Aaron's original post, and the early replies, it looks like the issue is getting Aaron to identify whether or not he has a gambling addiction which needs help, or is something he can ultimately control.  At present, he believes it's the latter but if it's otherwise, I honestly don't see that he'll ever seriously realise this for himself without help.

So my challenge/suggestion to him is to use this thread going forward as a diary.  The OP suggests there's a problem which you want to address, which is a massive step to say so publically.  Therefore, each time you use a machine in the bookies, or play one of the online casino games when logging in to make a bet, my challenge is to post on here that you've done so and for what amounts.  You'll need to be honest with yourself to do this, but the point is that over time you'll see the frequency and cost of any such activity in your own words and it might provide you with the perspective to clearly see whether this is a trivial issue for you or whether it's more serious (and I'm not pre-judging on this, as it's an individual decision).

You seem to me to be the type of person who needs to see things for yourself, rather than have others tell you, before you're convinced.  If you don't want to do this on here, then do it privately as a 2nd-best alternative, but you've 'gone public' already so I think it would be a good discipline to follow this up.

I said to myself I wasn't going to post ITT again, but ↑ that post needs reinforcement.

If you feel like you can't have total control over your gambling - in whatever context - you need to take affirmative action.

We joke about people being "degens" and "spunking off" this and that, but it can be a very serious problem, which anyone who has been around gambling for a few years has seen time and time again.

Great news is, from what has been posted here, there are people willing and able to help. If you want to post about what's going on here, you will find out that there are plenty of genuine and helpful people out there.

Sigh @ my arrow tekkers now on a different page.

I'm not sure if people realise, but I know the machines are a loss maker for me and the weird thing is that I know that before I step on them.

Most weeks I am going on the bookies machines & I will lose probably £100-£200 each week on them. Luckily for me I have been average more than that on punting on horses, etc, etc, but there is no way I am trying to excuse it. I don't want to use the machines at all, the losses are frustrating and whilst I do not expect to win all the time, it's just huge losses. I'd rather make £400 a week total, than £200 after spinning my crackers off on the machine!

Thankfully for me, it's not a situation where it's massively affecting my finances like others, but still completely annoying. The most amusing thing here is that I would not even entertain a roulette table in a casino, but yet I will in a bookies!

But I haven't been on these machines since I posted, which is something

I'm sure many on here have issues with other aspects of gambling but dont air them.

I like a punt on the spinning game but know there are times when I get obsessed either chasing losses or trying to spin up a decent win and blow it.

It could be a good thing that now you've shared your problem it makes you think more about it

Hope you've stopped for good.

Best wishes with this.

Well done!

You have recognised a leak in your gambling, now stick with it and keep off them. You will notice a huge difference in your roll in a few months.

Whilst I think the advice given above is laudable I think that one of the problems with advice on a forum like this is that it is never going to give you the advice that you really need which, frankly, is to stop gambling altogether.  Trying to pick or choose which forms of gambling you do is almost completely pointless and I think you are probably deluding yourself about your long term ability to make money at every form of gambling you do.  That is harsh but it is probably right.  Gambling has never been a problem for me but other things have been and a complete abstinence approach is almost always best.  There are solid reasons why NA groups insist on abstinence from alcohol etc too because with a true addiction it is very difficult to resist.  From your posts you are already suggesting you find yourself powerless to resist the machines so popping into the betting shop for a bet on the horses is just putting yourself in harms way.  If you are serious about this then I would also suggest that as interesting as it is for all of us a poker forum might not be the right place to seek help.

Booze, drugs, aldutery and gambling are all fkn great.

Don't believe the do gooders. Find your level and learn from your mistakes. When you get all 4 of the above in a 12 hour session and wake up with no money or clothes then re-evaluate.

Aaron just needed to post somewhere that he is crushing horsey betting IMO.

Wiiiiiiiiiiiii :D

Just confirm for us that this is real horses and not the virtual ones.

Jesus so good!

There is nothing virtual about a winner Tal!


Copyright Derek Thompson 2006

There's nothing virtual about a winner!

And betting to 141% over round reminds us what a great industry this once was.

Tal, I crushed you all at Ascot! :D

However this week has been rather ridic and is my first losing week out of 7. However not sure if I'm embarrassed by this thread or not at the moment...

Ps - thanks for solutions and best wishes also to get sorted

Did you hear his commentary last night? I was cringing.

the "give him a big cheer hasnt he done well making all in the blinkers" one?

Yes, for some as yet unknown reason he started chatting to me at Lingfield last Saturday

Just as he is on camera as of it

"Hey you ok there big felllllla?"

Since I started this topic I haven't had a single spin on a machine, but today I wanted to take myself to task & spend a few hours in the bookies seeing if I could persuade myself to stay away, with a bit of will power I succeeded. It's not really a first step of anything, neither do I deserve a pat on the back, but I suppose like it I said I put myself to task. As sad as it sounds watching others get annoyed with the machines is kinda fruitful in such ways, because it just shows why you want to stay from the things.

I suppose I gained myself half a point, because I made sure that I went in at a time when there was pretty much only machine play to really make a profit or loss.

But it makes you think about it, how these machines are vital to the shops one punter on these machines probably in one spin or two or three spins more than what is took from the remaining customers put together in the shop! Not only this, but every single shop I have ever been in crams all 4 (which is the max in) into the shop however they can. It definitely shows how vital these are to the shops, it would be very questionable that without them would people be in a job?

However minus half a point, because I've played blackjack online for 30 mins to pass by whilst I wait for the racing to start today, however the online betting is a lot more smaller than the machines, but it is NOT excuseable.

Think its now up to you and fwiw why tempt fate hanging around in a bookies checking the machine action, dont go in unless u having a punt on the horses.

Sounds same as me if Im trying to avoid putting money on 26 neigbours why do I hang around the tables - no point.

Keep away - simples.