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9/11
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Topic: 9/11 (Read 13096 times)
highmile
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 107
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #15 on:
September 06, 2011, 11:50:15 PM »
Quote from: Acidmouse on September 06, 2011, 11:46:10 PM
low level troll alert
Is this a Blonde forum thing? - I've noticed that should anyone post anything slightly worth a debate that is disputed by a 'local' then they are branded as a 'troll' - is this a closed forum, only debates allowed by the like minded?
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Delboy
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 2484
If you never let me go, I will never let you down.
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #16 on:
September 06, 2011, 11:51:11 PM »
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:46:47 PM
Quote from: Delboy on September 06, 2011, 11:43:57 PM
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: outragous76 on September 06, 2011, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:33:03 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on September 06, 2011, 11:25:58 PM
Hiroshima not a terrorist attack and don't see a lot to debate about it
Clearly it's 9/11
Really, so how you classify mass killing of people makes it more acceptable?
well if that is your line and you still think its hiroshima you are as clueless as you sound atm
OK, so the 100000+ killed by UK/US bombs on Iraq........does illegal war count? or is this different from terrorism?
Was it illegal?
Without doubt, futile arguaments otherwise have been
shot down in flames
very recently
TERRORIST
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'Still we sing with our heroes thirty three rounds a minute'
outragous76
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 13363
Yeah Bitch! ......... MAGNETS! owwwh!
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #17 on:
September 06, 2011, 11:53:52 PM »
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:50:15 PM
Quote from: Acidmouse on September 06, 2011, 11:46:10 PM
low level troll alert
Is this a Blonde forum thing? - I've noticed that should anyone post anything slightly worth a debate that is disputed by a 'local' then they are branded as a 'troll' - is this a closed forum, only debates allowed by the like minded?
yeah we are all cliquey
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
highmile
Full Member
Offline
Posts: 107
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #18 on:
September 06, 2011, 11:55:56 PM »
Quote from: outragous76 on September 06, 2011, 11:53:52 PM
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:50:15 PM
Quote from: Acidmouse on September 06, 2011, 11:46:10 PM
low level troll alert
Is this a Blonde forum thing? - I've noticed that should anyone post anything slightly worth a debate that is disputed by a 'local' then they are branded as a 'troll' - is this a closed forum, only debates allowed by the like minded?
yeah we are all cliquey
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Your response is not a major surprise!
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Delboy
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Posts: 2484
If you never let me go, I will never let you down.
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #19 on:
September 06, 2011, 11:56:38 PM »
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:50:15 PM
Quote from: Acidmouse on September 06, 2011, 11:46:10 PM
low level troll alert
Is this a Blonde forum thing? - I've noticed that should anyone post anything slightly worth a debate that is disputed by a 'local' then they are branded as a 'troll' - is this a closed forum, only debates allowed by the like minded?
Not really, but comparing 9/11 to an event in WW11 is redic!
"What about the 20,000,000 Russians who died on the eastern front?"
Its a silly and pointless argument
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'Still we sing with our heroes thirty three rounds a minute'
Acidmouse
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 7954
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #20 on:
September 06, 2011, 11:57:18 PM »
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:50:15 PM
Quote from: Acidmouse on September 06, 2011, 11:46:10 PM
low level troll alert
Is this a Blonde forum thing? - I've noticed that should anyone post anything slightly worth a debate that is disputed by a 'local' then they are branded as a 'troll' - is this a closed forum, only debates allowed by the like minded?
I don't mind debates, i love comparing certain situations in history and how they occured. But making a comparison of 9/11 and Hiroshima is simply stupid. The only thing it is designed to do it lead onto a rant about illegal wars and zero to do with terrorism. Debating on illegal wars is an internet sensation of the 90's and only leads to one thing, arguments. Been done millions of times on here and across forums.
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TommyD
Sr. Member
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Posts: 635
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #21 on:
September 07, 2011, 07:40:07 AM »
I really don't think there is much point in comparing the various atrocities in human history. All these events need to analysed independently of each other otherwise you just trivialise each one by turning it into some kind of list show with a Top Ten Countdown. There's 9/11, the two nuclear bombs in Japan, Khmer Rouge, the WWII Holocaust, Britain inventing the Concentration Camp in the Boer War, Slavery, Indian Massacres, Burning of the Catholics, The Russians who died in WWII and so on and so forth. It's gets a bit ridiculous in trying to ever say one act of Human Cruelty is worse than another.
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action man
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 10673
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #22 on:
September 07, 2011, 01:14:51 PM »
the absence of evidence does not mean the evidence of absence
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nirvana
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 7804
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #23 on:
September 07, 2011, 01:20:05 PM »
Whilst there were many atrocities committed against the allies in WWII and I don't see it on a par with 9/11, I think there is a case for the dropping of those particular bombs to be considered as terrorism rather than the normal course of war as it was known at the time.
Indiscriminate bombings of many UK cities during WWII could also be considered terroristic as opposed to 'war'.
In fact the more I think about it I think all war is terrorism at its core. Might be justified, might not be but its terrorist in nature.
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sola virtus nobilitat
kinboshi
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
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Posts: 44302
We go again.
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #24 on:
September 07, 2011, 01:58:28 PM »
Quote from: jjandellis on September 07, 2011, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: outragous76 on September 06, 2011, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:33:03 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on September 06, 2011, 11:25:58 PM
Hiroshima not a terrorist attack and don't see a lot to debate about it
Clearly it's 9/11
Really, so how you classify mass killing of people makes it more acceptable?
well if that is your line and you still think its hiroshima you are as clueless as you sound atm
OK, so the 100000+ killed by UK/US bombs on Iraq........does illegal war count? or is this different from terrorism?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary evils that saved alot of allied lives. This was also at a time when the Allies were very war weary.
Did you say in a previous thread that you had ancestors fight in WW2? If so, then without the bomb you may find you'd not be around today. Lots of soldiers that had finished fighting in Europe/Africa/Middle East would have been diverted to SE Asia - for a very dirty fight. Imagine Nam, but ten times worse.
I'd suggest you do some reading about the Japanese Empires expansionist strategy in Asia; you'll soon realise that they would absolutely fight to the very death and take as many allies with them as possible. Read this on Bushido:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido
Oh and if you doubt how nice the Japs were then go out and buy this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forgotten-Highlander-Incredible-Survival-During/dp/1405507659
It's about a soldier from the Gordon Highlanders (was your ancestor in this unit?), who manned Singapore when it capitulated. It is the story of his capture, his time in the camps and his transportation by Death ship to Japan. Oh and also how the 'nice' Japanese civilian population treated them. He also witnessed Hiroshima from ground level. Very moving and absolutely horrifying.
Don't agree with the OP (who is trying to introduce his own definition of the word 'terrorism') - but also strongly disagree with the traditionalist or revisionist justification given for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Same goes for the carpet bombing of Dresden, fire-bombing of Tokyo, etc. Levelling population centres does not force surrender.
«
Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 02:04:55 PM by kinboshi
»
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'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
pleno1
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19107
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #25 on:
September 07, 2011, 02:10:33 PM »
Quote from: action man on September 07, 2011, 01:14:51 PM
the absence of evidence does not mean the evidence of absence
icwudt
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Quote from: TightEnd on December 16, 2013, 12:59:59 AM
Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
smashedagain
moderator of moderators
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 12522
if you are gonna kiss arse you have to do it right
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #26 on:
September 07, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »
Do the various factions across the world who we label terrorists see themselves as such or do they see themselves as freedom fighters in a war.
Bin laden is just guilty of killing innocents as Tony Blair IMO. We choose to call one a terrorist and the other a great leader.
New members should be encouraged to post their views and should not be ridiculed for it.
He who is without sin shall cast the first stone.
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kinboshi
ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 44302
We go again.
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #27 on:
September 07, 2011, 04:28:41 PM »
Quote from: jjandellis on September 07, 2011, 03:33:01 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on September 07, 2011, 01:58:28 PM
Quote from: jjandellis on September 07, 2011, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:39:42 PM
Quote from: outragous76 on September 06, 2011, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: highmile on September 06, 2011, 11:33:03 PM
Quote from: TightEnd on September 06, 2011, 11:25:58 PM
Hiroshima not a terrorist attack and don't see a lot to debate about it
Clearly it's 9/11
Really, so how you classify mass killing of people makes it more acceptable?
well if that is your line and you still think its hiroshima you are as clueless as you sound atm
OK, so the 100000+ killed by UK/US bombs on Iraq........does illegal war count? or is this different from terrorism?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary evils that saved alot of allied lives. This was also at a time when the Allies were very war weary.
Did you say in a previous thread that you had ancestors fight in WW2? If so, then without the bomb you may find you'd not be around today. Lots of soldiers that had finished fighting in Europe/Africa/Middle East would have been diverted to SE Asia - for a very dirty fight. Imagine Nam, but ten times worse.
I'd suggest you do some reading about the Japanese Empires expansionist strategy in Asia; you'll soon realise that they would absolutely fight to the very death and take as many allies with them as possible. Read this on Bushido:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido
Oh and if you doubt how nice the Japs were then go out and buy this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forgotten-Highlander-Incredible-Survival-During/dp/1405507659
It's about a soldier from the Gordon Highlanders (was your ancestor in this unit?), who manned Singapore when it capitulated. It is the story of his capture, his time in the camps and his transportation by Death ship to Japan. Oh and also how the 'nice' Japanese civilian population treated them. He also witnessed Hiroshima from ground level. Very moving and absolutely horrifying.
Don't agree with the OP (who is trying to introduce his own definition of the word 'terrorism') - but also strongly disagree with the traditionalist or revisionist justification given for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Same goes for the carpet bombing of Dresden, fire-bombing of Tokyo, etc. Levelling population centres does not force surrender.
I don't necessarily agree with levelling of civilian populations. The Nurermburg trials could have brought charges for war crimes against the Luftwaffe's commanders. But they chose not too, as they knew that Bomber Command had committed similar (and in cases worse) acts themselves. Victors justice.
But the bomb was also an ominous threat, a window into what could have been for the Emporer had he followed Anami's plan to fight the allies on home soil.
What are you referring to with 'revisionist' Dan? Or what parts do you disagree with?
I disagree with the reasons that are given for justifying the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in that it ended the war by bringing about the Japanese surrender.
Read what Hasegawa says about it, and his evidence and argument (which many now support) that puts forward the Soviet involvement and declaration of war on Japan as the reason for the Japanese surrender, not the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsuyoshi_Hasegawa
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'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
nirvana
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 7804
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #28 on:
September 07, 2011, 04:32:41 PM »
Quote from: smashedagain on September 07, 2011, 04:12:25 PM
Do the various factions across the world who we label terrorists see themselves as such or do they see themselves as freedom fighters in a war.
Bin laden is just guilty of killing innocents as Tony Blair IMO. We choose to call one a terrorist and the other a great leader.
New members should be encouraged to post their views and should not be ridiculed for it.
He who is without sin shall cast the first stone.
Bit harsh calling Blair a terrorist but if the cap fits
Logged
sola virtus nobilitat
nirvana
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 7804
Re: 9/11
«
Reply #29 on:
September 07, 2011, 05:26:39 PM »
To Kin's point - it may not have been the incident that caused the Japanese to surrender but I'm pretty sure the intention was to get them to surrender in the face of the possibility of further attacks.
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sola virtus nobilitat
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