Road to being a pro

[arbboy]

I think if I was finishing my A levels now and just turning 18 and the age to go to uni - I wouldn't.  Actually, I probably couldn't.  The average expected debt for a uni graduate who was starting uni in 2012 was over £60K.  I just don't know how important a university degree is (unless it's for a specific career, such as medicine).  As Woodsey said, it can help you get your first job, but after that it becomes less and less important.

Very different situation to when I graduated over 15 years ago.

I agree with this totally.  £60k is a huge amount of debt to be in when the vast majority of graduates don't really need a degree for their chosen degree (unlike doctors/dentists/lawyers etc)  I left uni to work for a big 5 accountancy firm in 1996 on £12k a year (Outside of London) after graduating in a non accountancy subject and if i was looking to do the same now i would just go straight into work after Alevels and avoid all the debt and come up the other end with the same professional qualifications 3 years earlier and get on the earnings career path quicker.  Out of interest does anyone know what a graduate trainee would start on straight out of uni now in a similar career in 2014?  Just interested in comparing relative debt/salary ratios across the two periods and how they have changed.

In 1996 all tutition fees were paid by govt, i got a grant every term which covered all my hall fees and left me with £400 a term on top to spend on beer effectively (£40 a week - £1 a pint in those days) and the max student loan was £900 a year i think.   Pretty sure i came out of uni with more money than i went in with at 21 with summer job money as well (i never worked during term time).  Quite incredible how the game has changed in 20 years.

How does having £60k of student debt around your neck effect you getting a mortgage even if you have a reasonably well paid secure job at, say, 26/28 years old?

[titaniumbean]

I think if I was finishing my A levels now and just turning 18 and the age to go to uni - I wouldn't.  Actually, I probably couldn't.  The average expected debt for a uni graduate who was starting uni in 2012 was over £60K.  I just don't know how important a university degree is (unless it's for a specific career, such as medicine).  As Woodsey said, it can help you get your first job, but after that it becomes less and less important.

Very different situation to when I graduated over 35 years ago.

fyp

[Woodsey]

I think if I was finishing my A levels now and just turning 18 and the age to go to uni - I wouldn't.  Actually, I probably couldn't.  The average expected debt for a uni graduate who was starting uni in 2012 was over £60K.  I just don't know how important a university degree is (unless it's for a specific career, such as medicine).  As Woodsey said, it can help you get your first job, but after that it becomes less and less important.

Very different situation to when I graduated over 15 years ago.

Depends what you wanna do though really. You work for yourself right? At that age it's hard for most to have the stones to have a plan to work for themselves, they mostly just want a job. No chance I could be in the corporate game without a degree. The only people who get in my profession without a degree are people that have worked in healthcare before for a while as a nurse or something along those lines.

[vegaslover]

I think if I was finishing my A levels now and just turning 18 and the age to go to uni - I wouldn't.  Actually, I probably couldn't.  The average expected debt for a uni graduate who was starting uni in 2012 was over £60K.  I just don't know how important a university degree is (unless it's for a specific career, such as medicine).  As Woodsey said, it can help you get your first job, but after that it becomes less and less important.

Very different situation to when I graduated over 15 years ago.

Depends what you wanna do though really. You work for yourself right? At that age it's hard for most to have the stones to have a plan to work for themselves, they mostly just want a job. No chance I could be in the corporate game without a degree. The only people who get in my profession without a degree are people that have worked in healthcare before for a while as a nurse or something along those lines.

Most, if not all nurse training is at degree level

[Woodsey]

I think if I was finishing my A levels now and just turning 18 and the age to go to uni - I wouldn't.  Actually, I probably couldn't.  The average expected debt for a uni graduate who was starting uni in 2012 was over £60K.  I just don't know how important a university degree is (unless it's for a specific career, such as medicine).  As Woodsey said, it can help you get your first job, but after that it becomes less and less important.

Very different situation to when I graduated over 15 years ago.

Depends what you wanna do though really. You work for yourself right? At that age it's hard for most to have the stones to have a plan to work for themselves, they mostly just want a job. No chance I could be in the corporate game without a degree. The only people who get in my profession without a degree are people that have worked in healthcare before for a while as a nurse or something along those lines.

Most, if not all nurse training is at degree level

Now it is but not a few years back.

[cambridgealex]

"Can I ask, having just finished uni myself and with the poker interest rising all the time, what's your piece of advice for making the next step up in the game? I currently play smaller buy-in live tournaments but have profited fairly consistently over the past year or so."

@baldock

If it's a hobby then I advise you play up to a level where it's still fun, not stressful in terms of ££, and if you're looking for the next level, maybe treat it like a more serious hobby by tracking results accurately, thinking about hands afterwards, posting on PHA for hand advice and asking friends or peoples whose games you respect about hands / general strategy. Don't let it rule your life though, balance is imperative.

[KingPush]

Yeah agree a lot. Think the argument of you could have earned x doing this is fairly flawed.

Gonna try and play 120 hours this month and study for 40.

Hope you don't mind me suggesting, but a very obvious thought occurred to me.

You seem resigned to "only" getting a 2:2 - why not reverse those planned hours, & maybe you could get a 2:1 or better? It's only for a few months, & your Degree lasts a lifetime.

As to poker, I'm a big fan of PLO, & the more that play it the merrier, but it is VERY swingy, so tread carefully.

Good luck. 

Appreciate all the comments and advice but most of them seem to be down to this misinterpretation. I meant 40 hours studying poker not for uni haha.

Too tired to be able to comprehend a lot of what's been said in here but I'll get round to it later on. Played 7/8 hours today which is the longest in ages. Stopped playing zoom and just 6 tabling 25nl on stars and table selecting. Much less stressful and much more enjoyable. Still calling way too much on rivers though starting to think no one ever bluffs even preflop.

[Rexas]

Yeah agree a lot. Think the argument of you could have earned x doing this is fairly flawed.

Gonna try and play 120 hours this month and study for 40.

Hope you don't mind me suggesting, but a very obvious thought occurred to me.

You seem resigned to "only" getting a 2:2 - why not reverse those planned hours, & maybe you could get a 2:1 or better? It's only for a few months, & your Degree lasts a lifetime.

As to poker, I'm a big fan of PLO, & the more that play it the merrier, but it is VERY swingy, so tread carefully.

Good luck. 

Appreciate all the comments and advice but most of them seem to be down to this misinterpretation. I meant 40 hours studying poker not for uni haha.

Too tired to be able to comprehend a lot of what's been said in here but I'll get round to it later on. Played 7/8 hours today which is the longest in ages. Stopped playing zoom and just 6 tabling 25nl on stars and table selecting. Much less stressful and much more enjoyable. Still calling way too much on rivers though starting to think no one ever bluffs even preflop.

How dare you comment on your own diary!

[Longines]

Out of interest does anyone know what a graduate trainee would start on straight out of uni now in a similar career in 2014?

Think we pay around £24k - one of the larger global IT consultancies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-26954901 has some interesting numbers on student debt in 2014. Average debt now £44k, average repayment expected to be £67k. 55% will end up repaying less than they borrowed in real terms.

[tikay]

Appreciate all the comments and advice but most of them seem to be down to this misinterpretation. I meant 40 hours studying poker not for uni haha.

Ahh, my apologies Mr King.

So you plan to play or study poker for 160 hours this month, call it 40 hours per week, which is equal to 5 x 8 hour days.

Why not play a little less poker, & spend a little more time studying for the degree, so you can get better than a 2:2? I think that's the point most of us are trying to suggest.  

[Doobs]

Ahh, my apologies Mr King.

So you plan to play or study poker for 160 hours this month, call it 40 hours per week, which is equal to 5 x 8 hour days.

Why not play a little less poker, & spend a little more time studying for the degree, so you can get better than a 2:2? I think that's the point most of us are trying to suggest. 

Yeh this.  I think the 2(i) point is very valid.  I still see it in job specs and I am pretty old.  There isn't much between a 2(i) and 2(ii).  A bit of hard work now should easily be able to get you up the 5% or so you need to bridge the gap in each subject.

I did quite a tough subject, but practically nobody did the amount of work they could have done for their degree.  The year after you leave you are going to be doing 40 hours a week in work anyway, so everybody should be capable of that.  The hours you are putting into poker are going to be more than enough to get you a 2(i).  To be frank they look more than enough to cause you to drop to a 3rd or mess it up completely.

Poker will still be there when the degree is finished.  Taking it easy now is going to make so little difference to amy potential poker career.  When I am not working I am allegedly a top 100 UK player and am allegedly the best in my county and don't really make enough to pay all the bills when doing it.  I have put many hours and years into playing and think I clearly have an aptitude for it. I don't even get staked so keep 100% of profits too, it would be really marginal keeping 50%. Same with other gambling, I only really make a couple of hundred a month long run, it is nowhere near enough what you need to live on with a family. 

Sure give it a go if you can, but the chances are that you aren't going to be as good as me, never mind the top 20 or so I the country who make a very decent living from it.  Maths is going to be way better on those making a decent living from a 2(i).

[cambridgealex]

Uni doesn't start until October guys...this is why he's focussing on poker lol. Honestly Tikay, you'd think you were out of touch with how things work for the yoof of today...

[tikay]

Uni doesn't start until October guys...this is why he's focussing on poker lol. Honestly Tikay, you'd think you were out of touch with how things work for the yoof of today...

As if........

I fear I'm weeing into the wind here.

Amazing how addictive poker is, & the grip it exerts on us. I had a cracking job, & retired from it due to the lure of poker. Don't regret it either, had a ton of fun, made so many friends, had so many wonderful times & experiences.

But my career had run its course, pretty much, I'd ticked all the career boxes I ever dreamed of & more besides. Thats a bit different to doing it before my working life began though. In my case, it could never have happened, of course, my Dad would have killed me, he was in the "get a proper job, Son" school.

Times, of course, have very much changed, some for the better, some not so much.

What has not changed is that young men, then & now, were & are always resistant to advice from elder people. It was always so.   

Viewed from a distance, it's incredibly interesting how our perspective of life changes with age.

[arbboy]

Uni doesn't start until October guys...this is why he's focussing on poker lol. Honestly Tikay, you'd think you were out of touch with how things work for the yoof of today...

As if........

I fear I'm weeing into the wind here.

Amazing how addictive poker is, & the grip it exerts on us. I had a cracking job, & retired from it due to the lure of poker. Don't regret it either, had a ton of fun, made so many friends, had so many wonderful times & experiences.

But my career had run its course, pretty much, I'd ticked all the career boxes I ever dreamed of & more besides. Thats a bit different to doing it before my working life began though. In my case, it could never have happened, of course, my Dad would have killed me, he was in the "get a proper job, Son" school.

Times, of course, have very much changed, some for the better, some not so much.

What has not changed is that young men, then & now, were & are always resistant to advice from elder people. It was always so.    

Viewed from a distance, it's incredibly interesting how our perspective of life changes with age.

I can't tell you how glad i am that i wasn't at uni from 2000 onwards where the lure of online betting/poker would have probably ruined my education.  Punting then consisted of bets in the betting shop in cash and/or the phone to stan james via their teletext pages.  There were pretty much no other outlets (i didn't even know casinos existed in those naive young enjoyable days!) being at uni in a town that never had a casino.  It was hard enough then just with the normal distractions of drinking/clubs/birds/sport and the occassional bet to get the degree work done.  The temptation of seeing young guys your age winning enough cash to buy houses and 10 times what your first salary will be in a year tax free in a weekend must be hard to cope with if you fancy yourself to make it as well.

[tikay]

Uni doesn't start until October guys...this is why he's focussing on poker lol. Honestly Tikay, you'd think you were out of touch with how things work for the yoof of today...

As if........

I fear I'm weeing into the wind here.

Amazing how addictive poker is, & the grip it exerts on us. I had a cracking job, & retired from it due to the lure of poker. Don't regret it either, had a ton of fun, made so many friends, had so many wonderful times & experiences.

But my career had run its course, pretty much, I'd ticked all the career boxes I ever dreamed of & more besides. Thats a bit different to doing it before my working life began though. In my case, it could never have happened, of course, my Dad would have killed me, he was in the "get a proper job, Son" school.

Times, of course, have very much changed, some for the better, some not so much.

What has not changed is that young men, then & now, were & are always resistant to advice from elder people. It was always so.    

Viewed from a distance, it's incredibly interesting how our perspective of life changes with age.

I can't tell you how glad i am that i wasn't at uni from 2000 onwards where the lure of online betting/poker would have probably ruined my education.  Punting then consisted of bets in the betting shop in cash and/or the phone to stan james via their teletext pages.  There were pretty much no other outlets (i didn't even know casinos existed in those naive young enjoyable days!) being at uni in a town that never had a casino.  It was hard enough then just with the normal distractions of drinking/clubs/birds/sport and the occassional bet to get the degree work done.  The temptation of seeing young guys your age winning enough cash to buy houses and 10 times what your first salary in a weekend must be hard to cope with if you fancy yourself to make it as well.

It's ruined many an education.

Some of us just have that gene in our body where we want to get the "gamble buzz". I've had it all my life, but I'm now at an age where though I still have to feed that addiction as often as possible, ideally daily, it no longer costs me money, & I play very small-ball. Still get the same buzz though, & I probably enjoiy it more than I ever did. I'll probably gamble until the day I die, but at least nowadays I have it under control, & make a little money from it. Can't imagine more than a few % of youngsters entering poker these days will ever make meaningful money.

I know Plinop believes ANYONE can, but I don't buy that. I could play 1,000 MTT's in September, & not learn a damn thing. The difference is I've lost my false ego, & I know I'll never be good enough. And that applies to well over 90% of poker players.

It's a GREAT social game, one of the best, & I'd recommend it to anyone. Not so much when it seizes control of our common-sense. It certainly over-powered my common-sense at times.