The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

I've been watching the whole anti-semitism discussions within labour and it feels like a subject where the more i watch and listen the less i understand.

I've always thought it's inevitable that people who are stridently anti zionist, anti Israeli government actions might exhibit some anti jewishness or make some jewish people uncomfortable but would never have really equated that with the kind of anti semitism that exists in the far right.

Anyway, when a load of fuss kicked up about Willsman I assumed he must have said some blatantly and pretty terrible anti semitic things - I've listened to his remarks and I'm really struggling to see how what he said could cause so much offense to so many.

Weird situation where centrist labour people like Cooper, Umunna, Watson et all call for him to stand down and then rabid nutters like Owen Jones also say he's beyond the pale and he's joined by Billy Bragg referring to the MacPherson principle.

I wonder why i'm missing the point so much when I feel like I'm normally quite sensitive to and, I thought, quite discerning when I saw/witnessed racism

[DungBeetle]

I've been watching the whole anti-semitism discussions within labour and it feels like a subject where the more i watch and listen the less i understand.

I've always thought it's inevitable that people who are stridently anti zionist, anti Israeli government actions might exhibit some anti jewishness or make some jewish people uncomfortable but would never have really equated that with the kind of anti semitism that exists in the far right.

Anyway, when a load of fuss kicked up about Willsman I assumed he must have said some blatantly and pretty terrible anti semitic things - I've listened to his remarks and I'm really struggling to see how what he said could cause so much offense to so many.

Weird situation where centrist labour people like Cooper, Umunna, Watson et all call for him to stand down and then rabid nutters like Owen Jones also say he's beyond the pale and he's joined by Billy Bragg referring to the MacPherson principle.

I wonder why i'm missing the point so much when I feel like I'm normally quite sensitive to and, I thought, quite discerning when I saw/witnessed racism

It's his point of view about the situation and not in itself anti-semitic imo.  However how stupid do you need to be to start ranting about this in the current climate for labour?  I think that is why they are calling him to stand down.  The party leadership is idiotic.  Just accept the universally accepted definition and examples and move on?  It's incredible they stumble from one disaster to the next likely all because some Momentum adviser decides they don't want their anti-Israel rhetoric compromised.  Accept the code.  Say what you want about Israel and just don't cross the line.  It's not hard.

[Woodsey]

I attended a senior management meeting today and asked our Director who heads up supply chain of the medicines we import to sell what impact Brexit would have on our supply. His answer was he thought it was very unlikely there would be any impact, they already stock a significant ‘buffer’ of medicines, but he would keep it under review and increase that stock a little if necessary. He has also been asked by the dept of health to guarantee supply which he has done.

[Woodsey]

Sir Micheal Rawlins - head of the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency was quoted in the Pharmaceutical Journal and picked up by Press Association.

When the regulator says there is an insulin supply chain problem under no deal

No insulin is made in the UK. It can't be by March.

What are the government going to do?

a friend of a friend has a T1 diabetic son. Went to doctor to try to stockpile, doctor only allowed to prescribe a month out

And other companies......

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-are-insulin-supplies-really-at-risk-from-a-no-deal-brexit

‘But more importantly, the companies that do supply (insulin to) the bulk of UK patients – even with products manufactured overseas – have told us that they don’t expect significant problems with supply in the event of a no-deal Brexit’

[Jon MW]

Sir Micheal Rawlins - head of the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency was quoted in the Pharmaceutical Journal and picked up by Press Association.

When the regulator says there is an insulin supply chain problem under no deal

No insulin is made in the UK. It can't be by March.

What are the government going to do?

a friend of a friend has a T1 diabetic son. Went to doctor to try to stockpile, doctor only allowed to prescribe a month out

And other companies......

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-are-insulin-supplies-really-at-risk-from-a-no-deal-brexit

‘But more importantly, the companies that do supply (insulin to) the bulk of UK patients – even with products manufactured overseas – have told us that they don’t expect significant problems with supply in the event of a no-deal Brexit’

When the regulator says we make no insulin in the UK even though we do (albeit a tiny percentage) - that suggests to me he's making a political point rather than a regulatory one. It reminds me of politicians who exaggerate a situation to make a point when they'd have made it equally well by just stating the facts.

Although in this case, as Woodsey has pointed out, the pharmaceutical companies themselves don't think there will be a supply problem so it's likely that the worse that will happen is a slightly larger bill for insulin. Just something else to be added on to the economic cost of Brexit - but not a social one.

[nirvana]

I've been watching the whole anti-semitism discussions within labour and it feels like a subject where the more i watch and listen the less i understand.

I've always thought it's inevitable that people who are stridently anti zionist, anti Israeli government actions might exhibit some anti jewishness or make some jewish people uncomfortable but would never have really equated that with the kind of anti semitism that exists in the far right.

Anyway, when a load of fuss kicked up about Willsman I assumed he must have said some blatantly and pretty terrible anti semitic things - I've listened to his remarks and I'm really struggling to see how what he said could cause so much offense to so many.

Weird situation where centrist labour people like Cooper, Umunna, Watson et all call for him to stand down and then rabid nutters like Owen Jones also say he's beyond the pale and he's joined by Billy Bragg referring to the MacPherson principle.

I wonder why i'm missing the point so much when I feel like I'm normally quite sensitive to and, I thought, quite discerning when I saw/witnessed racism

It's his point of view about the situation and not in itself anti-semitic imo.  However how stupid do you need to be to start ranting about this in the current climate for labour?  I think that is why they are calling him to stand down.  The party leadership is idiotic.  Just accept the universally accepted definition and examples and move on?  It's incredible they stumble from one disaster to the next likely all because some Momentum adviser decides they don't want their anti-Israel rhetoric compromised.  Accept the code.  Say what you want about Israel and just don't cross the line.  It's not hard.

I agree with your general points completely..perhaps he's just the straw that broke the camels back and the more left wing of the people I mentioned are finally trying too appear as sensible voices of reason

[RickBFA]

I've been watching the whole anti-semitism discussions within labour and it feels like a subject where the more i watch and listen the less i understand.

I've always thought it's inevitable that people who are stridently anti zionist, anti Israeli government actions might exhibit some anti jewishness or make some jewish people uncomfortable but would never have really equated that with the kind of anti semitism that exists in the far right.

Anyway, when a load of fuss kicked up about Willsman I assumed he must have said some blatantly and pretty terrible anti semitic things - I've listened to his remarks and I'm really struggling to see how what he said could cause so much offense to so many.

Weird situation where centrist labour people like Cooper, Umunna, Watson et all call for him to stand down and then rabid nutters like Owen Jones also say he's beyond the pale and he's joined by Billy Bragg referring to the MacPherson principle.

I wonder why i'm missing the point so much when I feel like I'm normally quite sensitive to and, I thought, quite discerning when I saw/witnessed racism

It's his point of view about the situation and not in itself anti-semitic imo.  However how stupid do you need to be to start ranting about this in the current climate for labour?  I think that is why they are calling him to stand down.  The party leadership is idiotic.  Just accept the universally accepted definition and examples and move on?  It's incredible they stumble from one disaster to the next likely all because some Momentum adviser decides they don't want their anti-Israel rhetoric compromised.  Accept the code.  Say what you want about Israel and just don't cross the line.  It's not hard.

I agree with your general points completely..perhaps he's just the straw that broke the camels back and the more left wing of the people I mentioned are finally trying too appear as sensible voices of reason

The latest Jezza effort on anti Semitism.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45027582

Not going well for him. Dung has it spot on, accept the international definition and stop being a dickhead.

[Woodsey]

Sir Micheal Rawlins - head of the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency was quoted in the Pharmaceutical Journal and picked up by Press Association.

When the regulator says there is an insulin supply chain problem under no deal

No insulin is made in the UK. It can't be by March.

What are the government going to do?

a friend of a friend has a T1 diabetic son. Went to doctor to try to stockpile, doctor only allowed to prescribe a month out

And other companies......

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-are-insulin-supplies-really-at-risk-from-a-no-deal-brexit

‘But more importantly, the companies that do supply (insulin to) the bulk of UK patients – even with products manufactured overseas – have told us that they don’t expect significant problems with supply in the event of a no-deal Brexit’

When the regulator says we make no insulin in the UK even though we do (albeit a tiny percentage) - that suggests to me he's making a political point rather than a regulatory one. It reminds me of politicians who exaggerate a situation to make a point when they'd have made it equally well by just stating the facts.

Although in this case, as Woodsey has pointed out, the pharmaceutical companies themselves don't think there will be a supply problem so it's likely that the worse that will happen is a slightly larger bill for insulin. Just something else to be added on to the economic cost of Brexit - but not a social one.

It’s actually not as straight forward raising the price of medicines as you would think. In fact the govt negotiate a price reduction most years which is paid back in the form of a rebate.

[doubleup]

Sir Micheal Rawlins - head of the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency was quoted in the Pharmaceutical Journal and picked up by Press Association.

When the regulator says there is an insulin supply chain problem under no deal

No insulin is made in the UK. It can't be by March.

What are the government going to do?

a friend of a friend has a T1 diabetic son. Went to doctor to try to stockpile, doctor only allowed to prescribe a month out

And other companies......

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-are-insulin-supplies-really-at-risk-from-a-no-deal-brexit

‘But more importantly, the companies that do supply (insulin to) the bulk of UK patients – even with products manufactured overseas – have told us that they don’t expect significant problems with supply in the event of a no-deal Brexit’

When the regulator says we make no insulin in the UK even though we do (albeit a tiny percentage) - that suggests to me he's making a political point rather than a regulatory one. It reminds me of politicians who exaggerate a situation to make a point when they'd have made it equally well by just stating the facts.

Although in this case, as Woodsey has pointed out, the pharmaceutical companies themselves don't think there will be a supply problem so it's likely that the worse that will happen is a slightly larger bill for insulin. Just something else to be added on to the economic cost of Brexit - but not a social one.

I really love these glib dismissals.

From one of the companies:

A spokesperson for HDA UK told FactCheck today that: “we are aware of proposals by the government and manufacturers to develop plans for stockpiling medicines of all types as a ‘buffer stock’ in the event of a ‘no deal Brexit’.”

So there is indeed a problem that will be mitigated by stockpiling.  Until when?  We start making our own?  Until it runs out and we get humanitarian relief?

[Woodsey]

Sir Micheal Rawlins - head of the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency was quoted in the Pharmaceutical Journal and picked up by Press Association.

When the regulator says there is an insulin supply chain problem under no deal

No insulin is made in the UK. It can't be by March.

What are the government going to do?

a friend of a friend has a T1 diabetic son. Went to doctor to try to stockpile, doctor only allowed to prescribe a month out

And other companies......

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-are-insulin-supplies-really-at-risk-from-a-no-deal-brexit

‘But more importantly, the companies that do supply (insulin to) the bulk of UK patients – even with products manufactured overseas – have told us that they don’t expect significant problems with supply in the event of a no-deal Brexit’

When the regulator says we make no insulin in the UK even though we do (albeit a tiny percentage) - that suggests to me he's making a political point rather than a regulatory one. It reminds me of politicians who exaggerate a situation to make a point when they'd have made it equally well by just stating the facts.

Although in this case, as Woodsey has pointed out, the pharmaceutical companies themselves don't think there will be a supply problem so it's likely that the worse that will happen is a slightly larger bill for insulin. Just something else to be added on to the economic cost of Brexit - but not a social one.

I really love these glib dismissals.

From one of the companies:

A spokesperson for HDA UK told FactCheck today that: “we are aware of proposals by the government and manufacturers to develop plans for stockpiling medicines of all types as a ‘buffer stock’ in the event of a ‘no deal Brexit’.”

So there is indeed a problem that will be mitigated by stockpiling.  Until when?  We start making our own?  Until it runs out and we get humanitarian relief?

I work for one of the companies, from our end it is the govt reaching out to us to guarantee stock as our supply chain team don’t think there will be a problem. From the horses mouth yesterday.....

[doubleup]

So everything is fine as long as the supply chain isn't disrupted - who'd have thought?

[Woodsey]

So everything is fine as long as the supply chain isn't disrupted - who'd have thought?

No, they are confident they can deal with any challenges.

[TightEnd]

Sky News obtains under Freedom of Information 30 studies on Brexit impact by local councils across the UK making contingencies and expressing concerns as Brexit clock ticks down, from social care, to food/medicines availability, border checks, to “social unrest”...

[TightEnd]

just taking one of them

Pembrokeshire

This extraordinary chart from the Welsh coast shows the 18 ways the council believe Brexit will impact the area. 17 out of 18 are Negative

the one positive, population may reduce

[tikay]

One for the geeks only, but this thread on PPRuNe (the aircraft pilots & crew  forum) tells of the chaos that No Deal would cause.


https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html

Way too long for anyone to read, but the gist of it is that licences, permits for pilots to fly, aircraft airworthiness certificates, airports, ATC etc would all be withdrawn if No Deal were to happen.


"NOTICE TO STAKEHOLDERS - WITHDRAWAL OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND EU AVIATION SAFETY RULES" on the European Commission website, which says:

Certificates issued before the withdrawal date by the competent authorities of the United Kingdom on the basis of the provisions of the Basic Regulation and its implementing rules will no longer be valid as of the withdrawal date in the EU. This concerns in particular:
 Certificates of airworthiness, restricted certificates of airworthiness, permits to fly, approvals of organisations responsible for the maintenance of products, parts and appliances, approvals for organisations responsible for the manufacture of products, parts and appliances, approvals for maintenance training organisations, and certificates for personnel responsible for the release of a product, part or appliance after maintenance, issued pursuant to Article 5 of the Basic Regulation;
 Pilot licences, pilot medical certificates, certificates for pilot training organisations, certificates for aero-medical centres, certificates for flight simulation training devices, certificates for persons responsible for providing flight training, flight simulation training or assessing pilots' skill, and certificates for aero medical examiners, issued pursuant to Article 7 of the Basic Regulation;
 Certificates for air operators and attestations for the cabin crew, issued pursuant to Article 8 of the Basic Regulation;
 Certificates for aerodromes, certificates for ATM/ANS providers, licences and medical certificates for air traffic controllers, certificates for air traffic controller training organisations, certificates for aero medical centres and aero medical examiners responsible for air traffic controllers, certificates for persons
 etc