Things I wish I knew

[MANTIS01]

My argument would be for one single piece of evidence to show that god exists, let this piece of evidence be tested, and if it is shown to be irrefutably correct, then I will believe.

Religion is a test of faith. It's kinda easy to have faith in something which is proven to be irrefutably correct

[kinboshi]

Science is abs bollocks, 100 years from now they will have said we got it all wrong and it was really God created it all...you just wait.

...and yet planes fly, your computer works, etc.

[kinboshi]

T

I wish I knew why anyone bothers to debate religion 
World would be a lot better place if everyone just beileved what they believed quietly.

Agree 100%.  That's faith, and that's great - everyone should be free to believe what they want.  Religion however, is about 'privilege' and if adherents to a particular religion are given privilege, that means that others must suffer as a result (zero-sum game).  A secular society is actually a lot fairer to those who want to practice whatever faith they want in their homes, in freedom.

Of course, I wouldn't dream of discussing the merits of any organised religion, it all just sounds like 'my dads bigger than your dad' to me.
What I was referring to was more the is there or isn't there question.
Now you are drawing me in, because I have to ask why you seem hell bent (excuse the pun) on proving there isn't a 'God'?
You seem more passionate about it than a lot of people I know are about there proclaimed religion!
Isn't that the same as people who insist there is?

I'm not trying to prove there isn't a god. Proving a negative is very difficult/ impossible. Why am I passionate about it? I think organised religion is responsible for a lot of wrongs in the world, and it's divisive and unhelpful. The law on abortion in Ireland, women's rights in Saudi Arabia, faith schools across the world, wars fought in the name of god are just some examples.

I'm also passionate about those who ignore the scientific method to sell their snake-oils as legitimate cures for diseases and illnesses, when they base their belief in the cures on faith and no evidence. In fact a lot know their alternative medicines don't work (much like that bloke selling the fake bomb detector), but don't care.

I don't insist there isn't a god. I'd be quite happy to acknowledge his existence, and my first question would be where has he been hiding and why?

[AndrewT]

I am going to football practice

I am going to practise playing the piano

Is that right? Semi back on topic too.

In English, practice is only a noun. Practise is a verb. The Yanks seem to disagree but that shouldn't concern us.

The way I remember it is:

ICE IS cold.

Ice - noun
Is - verb

We talkin' about practice.

[AndrewT]

Science is abs bollocks, 100 years from now they will have said we got it all wrong and it was really God created it all...you just wait.

...and yet planes fly, your computer works, etc.

Dan, you gotta learn to ignore those worms bobbing in the water.

[kinboshi]

Science is abs bollocks, 100 years from now they will have said we got it all wrong and it was really God created it all...you just wait.

...and yet planes fly, your computer works, etc.

Dan, you gotta learn to ignore those worms bobbing in the water.

Can't help it.

Anyway, to get the thread back on track, The Camel wants to know why there are so many successful Scottish managers in football when there aren't anywhere near as many top quality Scottish footballers?

God knows...

[Acidmouse]

I meant today's science is tomorrow bollocks. How much stuff has been scientifically proven to be later then superseded with another solid/fact based theory on evolution or whatever?

[kinboshi]

I meant today's science is tomorrow bollocks. How much stuff has been scientifically proven to be later then superseded with another solid/fact based theory on evolution or whatever?

That IS science!  It's about falsifiable theories, it's about changing our understanding of the world as we learn and challenge previous thinking.  The scientific method is all about looking at what we think we know and using evidence to reinforce our ideas or to provide new ones.

Science predicts outcomes, and if these outcomes occur and the experiments can be repeated and replicated with the same results, then it provides good evidence that the theories are accurate.  Sometimes the theories aren't complete, so more investigation and study is done to fill those gaps, or to create new ones.

Darwin's theory of evolution through natural selection is over 200 years old.  It has been observed to be accurate, it has been built upon, and the discovery of DNA provided more evidence to back it up and show its validity.  It has been replicated in laboratory conditions with bacteria, and our understanding of evolution has increased with other technological advances.  It helps us understand the natural world a lot more clearly.

Newton's theory on gravity was pretty much correct.  We all see its effects everyday on stuff in our world, and the way we orbit the sun, etc.  However, Einstein added more to our understanding of gravity with his theory of general relativity - and mankind's understanding of it increased.  But there are still holes in our understanding that need to be filled - and that's how science works.

[MANTIS01]

T

I wish I knew why anyone bothers to debate religion 
World would be a lot better place if everyone just beileved what they believed quietly.

Agree 100%.  That's faith, and that's great - everyone should be free to believe what they want.  Religion however, is about 'privilege' and if adherents to a particular religion are given privilege, that means that others must suffer as a result (zero-sum game).  A secular society is actually a lot fairer to those who want to practice whatever faith they want in their homes, in freedom.

Of course, I wouldn't dream of discussing the merits of any organised religion, it all just sounds like 'my dads bigger than your dad' to me.
What I was referring to was more the is there or isn't there question.
Now you are drawing me in, because I have to ask why you seem hell bent (excuse the pun) on proving there isn't a 'God'?
You seem more passionate about it than a lot of people I know are about there proclaimed religion!
Isn't that the same as people who insist there is?

I'm not trying to prove there isn't a god. Proving a negative is very difficult/ impossible. Why am I passionate about it? I think organised religion is responsible for a lot of wrongs in the world, and it's divisive and unhelpful. The law on abortion in Ireland, women's rights in Saudi Arabia, faith schools across the world, wars fought in the name of god are just some examples.

I'm also passionate about those who ignore the scientific method to sell their snake-oils as legitimate cures for diseases and illnesses, when they base their belief in the cures on faith and no evidence. In fact a lot know their alternative medicines don't work (much like that bloke selling the fake bomb detector), but don't care.

I don't insist there isn't a god. I'd be quite happy to acknowledge his existence, and my first question would be where has he been hiding and why?

Religion is responsible for a lot of rights and helps billions of people around the world find comfort and strength every day. Despite some of the extreme examples most people guided by a god aspire to live peacefully within a code of values which makes them better people. Think about the incredible number who pray to a god every day, most are asking for wholesome things whilst showing faith in something unproven. I’m not religious but that all seems like cool positive stuff.

Playing devil’s advocate here. That faith is a very real thing, and that strength and that comfort are very real things but they are bi-products of something which cannot be real? It’s like saying there is heat, warmth, and light but there can’t possibly be a fire. If somebody prays to god and gets strength it’s real, do we need to see an old man with a beard before we believe it so?

Finally, if you look around at all the miracles in the world from amazing nature to daily acts of kindness and human spirit I reckon god would be kinda pissed at the where have you been hiding jibe. So let us seek forgiveness now, come pray with me kinboshi, just to be on the safe side.

[Redsgirl]

J

T

I wish I knew why anyone bothers to debate religion 
World would be a lot better place if everyone just beileved what they believed quietly.

Agree 100%.  That's faith, and that's great - everyone should be free to believe what they want.  Religion however, is about 'privilege' and if adherents to a particular religion are given privilege, that means that others must suffer as a result (zero-sum game).  A secular society is actually a lot fairer to those who want to practice whatever faith they want in their homes, in freedom.

Of course, I wouldn't dream of discussing the merits of any organised religion, it all just sounds like 'my dads bigger than your dad' to me.
What I was referring to was more the is there or isn't there question.
Now you are drawing me in, because I have to ask why you seem hell bent (excuse the pun) on proving there isn't a 'God'?
You seem more passionate about it than a lot of people I know are about there proclaimed religion!
Isn't that the same as people who insist there is?

I'm not trying to prove there isn't a god. Proving a negative is very difficult/ impossible. Why am I passionate about it? I think organised religion is responsible for a lot of wrongs in the world, and it's divisive and unhelpful. The law on abortion in Ireland, women's rights in Saudi Arabia, faith schools across the world, wars fought in the name of god are just some examples.

I'm also passionate about those who ignore the scientific method to sell their snake-oils as legitimate cures for diseases and illnesses, when they base their belief in the cures on faith and no evidence. In fact a lot know their alternative medicines don't work (much like that bloke elling the fake bomb detector), but don't care
I don't insist there isn't a god. I'd be quite happy to acknowledge his existence, and my first question would be where has he been hiding and why
[/quote
Just so you know, I'm not challenging your views on religion at all, they're all just an excuse for the strong to manipulate the weak I.m.o.
The phrase ' A God fearing man ' has always annoyed me, why would anyone think a life lived in fear was a good thing?
I was really only sounding you out on the bigger question, you being a clever bloke and that.
Seems that, like me, you fall into the 'cant believe' rather than the 'wont believe' category. I think a lot of people feel this way, but wont admit it incase God hears them!
Do you think there is anything beyond/bigger than us? What about an afterlife, supervised or not?

[Karabiner]

Keith, the question about religion always leaves me dumbfounded. I don't understand with how intelligent people are meant to be and all the facts of evolution around us that such a large percentage of people are religious.

I guess it's people who are scared of dying, all religions offer an afterlife for you but unfortunately that's not true.

I'm not scared of dying.

I just don't want to be around when it happens.

I remember Spike Milligan saying that on some televised chat-show.

[david3103]

I don't believe in Organised Religion which is why I became a Methodist.

tbf though, Organised Politics/Organised Labour is responsible for a lot of the wrongs in this world too.


The Scottish footballers question? The exodus into the English leagues was severely reduced when we started sourcing our talents from Europe and beyond, and that in turn restricted the development of some talent that might otherwise have grown in an environment that was more conducive than the SPL.

[Laxie]

Who let Boshi out of the basement and where's Dewi ffs!  He's got a lot to answer for stirring up religion. 

[Redsgirl]

Read Mantis's post after I'd done mine (I'm on my phone and I can't use it properly ) This is why I ask questions all the time. I like to know why other people think what they do.
It doesn't mean I'll change my mind, but I like to think I can see things from all sides.

[Jon MW]

...
Religion is responsible for a lot of rights and helps billions of people around the world find comfort and strength every day. Despite some of the extreme examples most people guided by a god aspire to live peacefully within a code of values which makes them better people. Think about the incredible number who pray to a god every day, most are asking for wholesome things whilst showing faith in something unproven. I’m not religious but that all seems like cool positive stuff.
...

The argument would be that they are good people who are also religious - they aren't good people because they are religious.

The number of religious people who aren't good people is pretty good evidence for this theory.