UKIPT overlay

[luther101]

Day 1b: 311 entrants bring the total runners to 427.

£73,000 overlay

Fantastic     ....    about time they gave something back to the game that they 'asset strip' so mercillessly - I hope every other leg is a complete disaster for them too!

[tikay]

Day 1b: 311 entrants bring the total runners to 427.

£73,000 overlay

Fantastic     ....    about time they gave something back to the game that they 'asset strip' so mercillessly - I hope every other leg is a complete disaster for them too!

That is a little churlish, Luther?

We may not all be 'Stars fans, but without them, the poker scene (Online and Live) would be very different indeed. Nobody is forced to play on their Site, or in their Live Events, but I see no reason to wish them ill. 

I think it is short-sighted for poker players to think overlay is a good thing. It is not - nothing good can come of it.

[luther101]

I'd have a different opinion if they didn't help themselves to a percentage of the players prize pool in their live events     ....    like Stars need the money!

[tikay]

I'd have a different opinion if they didn't help themselves to a percentage of the players prize pool in their live events     ....    like Stars need the money!

If poker players are still happy to play, knowing that, who can blame 'Stars? It's a business. Players are not forced to play their Events.

PS - I should not really engage in this debate at 9am, when my grumpy-meter is usually at max.

Carry on, as you were.

[BorntoBubble]

Think Stars have overlayed in their last 3? live events. So they are definitely giving something back to the UK poker community putting on these large guarantees.

[DropTheHammer]

I'd have a different opinion if they didn't help themselves to a percentage of the players prize pool in their live events     ....    like Stars need the money!

Too right. That extra slice they grab takes the mick.

[robyong]

Think Stars have overlayed in their last 3? live events. So they are definitely giving something back to the UK poker community putting on these large guarantees.

All I can state is facts, rather than an opinion;

1. In terms of UKIPT's - PokerStars only take the 3% when the venue is outside of a casino/cardroom i.e. when they have much higher logistics costs. For example, it's not taken out of the prizepool at DTD.

2. PokerStars' UKIPT does not make a bean of profit from the players participating and never has, expenditure exceeds income including reg fees and 3%'s - so in that respect, all the 3%'s are doing is contributing to additional costs of the event. I am not party to how much UKIPT actually loses, but I would 'guess' the shortfall is subsidised by PokerStars.  

3. Charging 3% from prizepools is prob better for poker than charging 13% reg fees, as the winners pay the extra costs, but I guess that's a whole new debate.

Come to think of it, does anyone except Rastafish make money out of live tournament poker?

Cheers Rob

[bergeroo]

I'd have a different opinion if they didn't help themselves to a percentage of the players prize pool in their live events     ....    like Stars need the money!

Too right. That extra slice they grab takes the mick.

That pecentage goes to the dealers and the staff, not to Pokerstars the company. Not the same thing.

They are at least up front in doing this. Some tournaments take money out for staff and don't even state it anywhere on advertising. However a personal gripe with this policy is that it is the same 3% for a four day tournament as for a turbo that takes a few hours. Also yeah because of this it is actually only 58k overlay instead of 73. Anyway I don't really mind either way if the make the guarantee or not, I suppose it is good if you travelled to play the event and it is actually a drop in the ocean for Stars. Would prob be better if they dropped their main event buy in a bit but maybe they don't want massive fields as there aren't actually that many places in the UK that can handle a 1k plus field. DTD a noted and honourable exception to this.

[bergeroo]

Think Stars have overlayed in their last 3? live events. So they are definitely giving something back to the UK poker community putting on these large guarantees.

All I can state is facts, rather than an opinion;

1. In terms of UKIPT's - PokerStars only take the 3% when the venue is outside of a casino/cardroom i.e. when they have much higher logistics costs. For example, it's not taken out of the prizepool at DTD.

2. PokerStars' UKIPT does not make a bean of profit from the players participating and never has, so in that respect, all the 3%'s are doing contributing to additional costs. I am not party to how much UKIPT actually loses, but I would guess the shortfall is subsidised by PokerStars. 

Come to think of it, does anyone except Rastafish make money out of live tournament poker?

Cheers Rob

Good points Rob. A question. On the UKIPT site there is an asterisk next to the DTD event in May indicating that 3% will be taken out of the prizepool. Is this then not correct?

http://www.ukipt.com/tournaments/

[robyong]

Think Stars have overlayed in their last 3? live events. So they are definitely giving something back to the UK poker community putting on these large guarantees.

All I can state is facts, rather than an opinion;

1. In terms of UKIPT's - PokerStars only take the 3% when the venue is outside of a casino/cardroom i.e. when they have much higher logistics costs. For example, it's not taken out of the prizepool at DTD.

2. PokerStars' UKIPT does not make a bean of profit from the players participating and never has, so in that respect, all the 3%'s are doing contributing to additional costs. I am not party to how much UKIPT actually loses, but I would guess the shortfall is subsidised by PokerStars.  

Come to think of it, does anyone except Rastafish make money out of live tournament poker?

Cheers Rob

Good points Rob. A question. On the UKIPT site there is an asterisk next to the DTD event in May indicating that 3% will be taken out of the prizepool. Is this then not correct?

http://www.ukipt.com/tournaments/

It's wrong, never has been the case at DTD, must be just a web site typo, I will let them know

[pvas2]

I'd have a different opinion if they didn't help themselves to a percentage of the players prize pool in their live events     ....    like Stars need the money!

Too right. That extra slice they grab takes the mick.

That pecentage goes to the dealers and the staff, not to Pokerstars the company. Not the same thing.

They are at least up front in doing this. Some tournaments take money out for staff and don't even state it anywhere on advertising. However a personal gripe with this policy is that it is the same 3% for a four day tournament as for a turbo that takes a few hours. Also yeah because of this it is actually only 58k overlay instead of 73. Anyway I don't really mind either way if the make the guarantee or not, I suppose it is good if you travelled to play the event and it is actually a drop in the ocean for Stars. Would prob be better if they dropped their main event buy in a bit but maybe they don't want massive fields as there aren't actually that many places in the UK that can handle a 1k plus field. DTD a noted and honourable exception to this.

I still worry with this 3% though because when you do cash an event the stars person at the cashout desk will still always ask "are you leaving anything for the staff and dealers?". Maybe not always that phrasing but they don't really go out of their way to tell you about the 3% unless you specifically look what the asterixes mean on schedules, thought when I ask them if they have with-held anything already they do mention it.

[The Squid]

Yh but that's asking if you want to tip. A tip (in sociological terms?) is a way of acknowledging fair/good/excellent service. It's also away of contributing to a better income for people who do a hard and often not well remunerated physical work, waitress/taxi-driver/dealer.

The 3% is their wage - we all obviously agree that they should pay. Leaving a tip is a way of acknowledging excellent service and as a successful player who takes a good chunk out of the poker economy giving something back to the people who facilitate that.

When I used to play at The International it was completely standard we all tipped despite having an extra charge that already went to the dealers. Players and dealers were part the same community. Players from an internet background don't see tipping as important a) because they have a more realistic understanding of there ROI after expenses b) because they have a very narrow sense of community. It's a real shame more people don't tip and in the case of some of our most successful players it's pretty selfish.

[lucky_scrote]

Yh but that's asking if you want to tip. A tip (in sociological terms?) is a way of acknowledging fair/good/excellent service. It's also away of contributing to a better income for people who do a hard and often not well remunerated physical work, waitress/taxi-driver/dealer.

The 3% is their wage - we all obviously agree that they should pay. Leaving a tip is a way of acknowledging excellent service and as a successful player who takes a good chunk out of the poker economy giving something back to the people who facilitate that.

When I used to play at The International it was completely standard we all tipped despite having an extra charge that already went to the dealers. Players and dealers were part the same community. Players from an internet background don't see tipping as important a) because they have a more realistic understanding of there ROI after expenses b) because they have a very narrow sense of community. It's a real shame more people don't tip and in the case of some of our most successful players it's pretty selfish.

Tricky when you're backed though. Say you're in £50k MU and bink for £50k.

I used to always tip, but I don't win anymore so it doesn't matter.

[scotty77]

I thought that the Stars dealers were on pretty decent money?

Totally agree when playing at a poker club like the International tho....used to play cash regularly at a local club where the dealers were just on tips and I'd make sure to tip every hand won.

[Magic817]

I thought that the Stars dealers were on pretty decent money?

Totally agree when playing at a poker club like the International tho....used to play cash regularly at a local club where the dealers were just on tips and I'd make sure to tip every hand won.

Wow Ryan, dealers there must have been loaded!

I agree with Sam's sentiment. Regarding the backed argument as backers I think an understanding should be there that an appropriate amount should go to dealers etc and should be split between backers/horse.