uurgghhhhh frustrating river bet

[AgentChip109]

$1000 gt tounry on will hill. 186 started down to 18, top 20 pay. im currently in 5th place and move to other table and then this hand comes up against chip leader

Game #5067195363: $1000 Guaranteed (ID6307991) $10+$1 - Hold'em NL (300/600) - 2008/01/19 - 02:30:55 (UK)
Table "6307991 - 1" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 2: Mezmeron (3650 in chips)
Seat 3: Big_ears (17235 in chips)
Seat 4: Damboland (3530 in chips)
Seat 5: Dann11075 (10682 in chips)
Seat 6: Direct24 (5710 in chips)
Seat 7: josef25 sits out
Seat 8: Tiger_pk4 (41384 in chips)
Seat 9: Jonycon84 (18429 in chips)
Seat 10: Edgy11 (18280 in chips)
josef25: posts the ante 75
Tiger_pk4: posts the ante 75
Jonycon84: posts the ante 75
Edgy11: posts the ante 75
Mezmeron: posts the ante 75
Big_ears: posts the ante 75
Damboland: posts the ante 75
Dann11075: posts the ante 75
josef25: posts small blind 300
Tiger_pk4: posts big blind 600
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Edgy11 [ ]
Jonycon84: folds
Edgy11: raises to 1800
Mezmeron: folds
Big_ears: folds
Damboland: folds
Dann11075: folds
josef25: folds
Tiger_pk4: calls 1200
----- FLOP ----- [ ]
Tiger_pk4: checks
Edgy11: checks
----- TURN ----- [ ][]
Tiger_pk4: bets 1800
Edgy11: calls 1800
----- RIVER ----- [ ][]
Tiger_pk4: bets 37709 and is all-in
Edgy11: folds


i check flop, cos dont wanna get into a monster pot, so decide to take free card. when turn hits, i call cos still want to keep pot small, and wont know wot to do to a reshove. river, i just cant see wot im beating apart from maybe KQ and the guy just thinks i have bare ace

wot u reckon?

[LOJ]

I think his range of hands in this spot put u in a tricky position.  Its not a massive pot to win, but you can lay down as u did.  Rather than what can u beat for me what can u put him on that beats u.  Q/10, suited D connectors,

IMO i would call this spot and see this as a push to get u off the hand.  I would have re-popped the turn to get more info as a call puts u in a weak spot on the river for a push which is what he did.  Next tourney please......

[boldie]

I don't get what you're doing at all in this hand.

You raise wth a very marginal hand in a poor position preflop. Then when you sort of hit the flop with a nice draw and oppo checks it to you, you don't use your position to bet. That's not right. ALWAYS bet here if you decide to play something like this pre-flop in this way (which I think is bad as well, by the way)

Then you hit your straight and find that there's a flush out there as well and so only flatcall as, again, you have no initiative in this hand and you're scared. On the river..of course you fold..it's the easiest fold in the world after you played a hand this poorly.



IF you decide to raise with a hand like this pre-flop in early position (and that's a big IF) , you ALWAYS bet on a flop like this. Nobody expects you to have KJ off here because it's a terrible hand to raise with in early position. They take you for a bigger hand. BET out to get them to fold, if they don't you always have your draw.

You hit a big hand on the turn..get some money inthe pot ! Don't just flat call on the turn, raise the guy!.


You have position after the flop and have represented a big hand pre-flop..use that position!


My main piece of advice though;

If you can't play a weak hand strongly on a favourable flop, don't raise with it pre-flop. (I actually think you should write this down, stick it on your wall and look at it next time you find yourself with KJ/KQ and all that stuf in early position.)

[Longy]

I think Boldie has hit the nail on the head here.

Fold preflop, bet flop, raise turn and fold river.

[AlexMartin]

I don't get what you're doing at all in this hand.

You raise wth a very marginal hand in a poor position preflop. Then when you sort of hit the flop with a nice draw and oppo checks it to you, you don't use your position to bet. That's not right. ALWAYS bet here if you decide to play something like this pre-flop in this way (which I think is bad as well, by the way)

Then you hit your straight and find that there's a flush out there as well and so only flatcall as, again, you have no initiative in this hand and you're scared. On the river..of course you fold..it's the easiest fold in the world after you played a hand this poorly.



IF you decide to raise with a hand like this pre-flop in early position (and that's a big IF) , you ALWAYS bet on a flop like this. Nobody expects you to have KJ off here because it's a terrible hand to raise with in early position. They take you for a bigger hand. BET out to get them to fold, if they don't you always have your draw.

You hit a big hand on the turn..get some money inthe pot ! Don't just flat call on the turn, raise the guy!.


You have position after the flop and have represented a big hand pre-flop..use that position!


My main piece of advice though;

If you can't play a weak hand strongly on a favourable flop, don't raise with it pre-flop. (I actually think you should write this down, stick it on your wall and look at it next time you find yourself with KJ/KQ and all that stuf in early position.)

Yeah, agreed. This hand has been screwed up. Dont know why no flop bet or turn raise didnt occur. You dont want to play a big pot with a straight on the turn? WTf!

[LuckyLloyd]

I guess we should be raise / stacking off on the turn. That said, if all the money goes in there we are actually toast a lot of the time. Also, I guess we should be betting the flop but we get checkraised on that board texture a lot.

Fold preflop. Seriously, while its better that you raised rather than limping in - KJ is not in my range from that position.

This is kinda a wierd hand (partially due to the way we played it). If we had somehow managed to get another 3.5k+ each in there on the flop or the turn I think we would have to stack off to the overbet shove on the river.

Like Boldie, I do believe this hand is a really good example of why playing snugly from early position is best.

[boldie]

I guess we should be raise / stacking off on the turn. That said, if all the money goes in there we are actually toast a lot of the time. Also, I guess we should be betting the flop but we get checkraised on that board texture a lot.

Fold preflop. Seriously, while its better that you raised rather than limping in - KJ is not in my range from that position.

This is kinda a wierd hand (partially due to the way we played it). If we had somehow managed to get another 3.5k+ each in there on the flop or the turn I think we would have to stack off to the overbet shove on the river.

Like Boldie, I do believe this hand is a really good example of why playing snugly from early position is best.

Good we agree..now finish your HOTW!!!..I am dying to know what happened there!