blonde poker forum

We are exchanging contracts on our first flat and have discovered the underfloor (waterpowered) heating doesn't work. There are radiators in both bathrooms and a brand new boiler.

The owners are a couple our age and said that they turned off the underfloor heating because it was simply too hot and unnecessary even in winter. And it was only when we asked them to turn it on so we could see it working, that they realised it didn't work. The lady in the flat next door also said her underfloor heating didn't work.

Do we believe them that the radiators are sufficient? (Fwiw it was baking last night when I went round at 7pm, was 13degrees outside)

Or do we make them tear up all the floors and delay the move, also risk the flooring being damaged.

Is there another solution like add radiators to the other rooms?

It's a ground floor flat FYI. If underfloor heating is written in the description and it doesn't work, surely we have some right to now say, look we want it working when we move in or £x off the sale price.

Here's a floor plan if that helps

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc416/cambridgealex/95B94C3C-4271-4E27-9C59-8D28F9DC957F_zpsvbodfmol.png) (http://s1210.photobucket.com/user/cambridgealex/media/95B94C3C-4271-4E27-9C59-8D28F9DC957F_zpsvbodfmol.png.html)

Assuming you haven't exchanged contracts then yes, I would be saying we want £x of the sale price or you get it fixed.
Getting it fixed would obviously delay things, but to be honest unless you have a rough idea what is wrong how are you going to know what £x is acceptable, and what £x means you should walk away.
The only way you will probably know this is to get someone in, and they might need to rip up the floor to give you a ball park quote on fixing it?

I don't think you should accept the 'it's not needed argument' as when you come to sell the next buyer may well try and get you to fix it or want money off.

Unless they've installed a really low number of terrible radiators then radiators would be plenty to keep a flat warm. I've had underfloor and not had it and it didn't make a jot of difference to the quality of my life - think I only turned it on once to see what it was like.

Unless it's your dream to have underfloor heating I'd not worry about it, not get it fixed but perfectly legit to ask them to consider how much they would like to take off as a goodwill gesture to compensate. I think you'd have a legit claim post the purchase if something like this was found after you'd completed so pretty reasonable to ask for a fahsand or so off now its been discovered in advance

How hard you want to be about this is entirely personal though in terms of how well the flat fits with your budget, the area you want to live in etc - if it ticks all those boxes I wouldn't be overly concerned about a trivial thing relative to all the other purchase factors.

Ask them to get a qualified engineer to look at it and give an estimate of what is the problem, and how much it would cost to fix it.
We had water underfloor heating fitted recently in our kitchen extension....you really would not want to pull up flooring and cement etc!
 If it worked before, its maybe a supply /boiler fault.
Re temperature....our underfloor heating is temp controllable.....maybe this one is too?

PS...it is nice in the morning  :)

Would be nice to have it working in conjunction with the extractor fans as you have no windows. Condensation, damp and mould would be my concern having had to deal with it in my old house.

Unless I am mistaken then its tough titties the day after completion!

nah, sure that isn't true, as you can still sue for misrepresentation if somebody has lied?    Sure I have read stuff about people suing because somebody has hidden a dispute with a neighbour.

obv legal disputes are shit, so definitely sort it now.

You have every right to say you want something knocked off. Equally they have every right to say they're not going to knock anything off.

All depends how much you want the sale to go through and how much you value the underfloor heating aspect.

What's the EPC rating of the place? If it's A or B then I can buy that it gets too hot when it's on in such a small space. If it's D or E then I'd be very cautious because it's going to get chilly over the next few months.

There is normally a control box type thing that runs it, we had a similar issue it was the controller.

The most common type of under floor system used is John Guest Speedfit obv it might not be this type.

http://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/products/underfloor-heating/ (http://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/products/underfloor-heating/)

I would get them to get a heating engineer in to check it out and get a quote for repair.

Think it's pretty common for underfloor heating to play up. I have a top floor flat with underfloor heating, pretty sure in one of the bedrooms it doesn't work, need to sort it, a friend had similar issue and ended up paying £500 to fix. Usually an issue with the control panel rather than the actual heating element broken.

Your flat being on the ground floor I would insist that they get it fixed, no way would a ground floor flat be warm enough in winter with no heating? Unless you are used to living in an igloo.

Also no chance they haven't realised that their heating wasn't working, demand a discount for them subjecting your ears to that bullshit.

Oh I got that wrong then. Thought it was bathrooms that had the UFH not the rest of the flat.

We had electric underfloor heating in the kitchen & conservatory. It packed up in the kitchen and we re-installed a radiator. There's no solution that won't cost £££s and no GTE beyond the warranty that the same won't happen again. I'd never go for it again unless I had wooden or tiled floors that meant that the system was easily accessible.

In your case, Nirvana's point is key. If this place ticks all the other boxes, suggest a reasonable price reduction (£2--3k) and then use the extra money in your budget to install radiators in the other rooms. Maybe not as trendy/sexy, but far more reliable.

Re: post exchange charges. Yes, if something is not as per the spec, then you have a right to claim (often needs to be via small claims court). At least that's the route I went back in the mists of time.

if you really want the flat i wouldn't bother haggling - as long as there is no leak in the buried pipework - it will not be expensive to rectify

1. check the manual
2 check actuator heads are fitted correctly
3. check the room stats are fitted

providing all the parts are there - the chances are the plumber did not know how to wire up the control center - happens all the time

you will 9 x 10 need a sparky rather than a plumber to sort it out as the plumbing side is idiot proof

worse case scenario - easy to add extra radiators if needed     

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

I had underfloor heating in my old place, was lovely - until i got the first bill and never turned it on again.

Ask them to get it checked out for damage to other things and quote for a repair, once quote comes in they deduct the value of the quote from the sale price? Might not really be needed but you are buying a flat with underfloor heating so really you should have underfloor heating, even if its not really important.

Am I being naive or does that sound really fair?

That's my thinking Dave. They are reasonable people, I'm sure to be fine. Thanks all.

Two bathrooms in a space that size. I guess it's the modern way.

I could never stop thinking about how I would have had a much bigger sitting room or bedroom if the space hadn't been taken for an unnecessary bathroom, but I know that's not how young people think nowadays.

Am I seeing right is the an external door out of the master bedroom?

That's unusual

Pretty sure the external door is at the end of the feature titled 'entrance hall' -

 rotflmfao

Yep, I see that door, and may I say what a superb place for a door it is too  ;nanana;

However look in the master room, there appears to be some sort of small corridor next to the en-suite and at the end of that...it looks like an external door? Is that what it is? Not saying good or bad just saying I think thats unusual?

Couldn't resist :) imagine that's some kind of balconette feature like - mind you it is ground floor so could be some kind of patio thang. Tell us Alex

As you’re on the ground floor n heat rises you will be paying to heat the flats above you !
If it’s too cold go to the nearest costa /Starbucks / shopping centre in the winter
Ha seriously as long as the main boiler n radiators are working will you ever notice ?

Yeh come on Alex, edge of our seats here!!!

WHERE DOES THAT DOOR GO!

Maybe a patio area?

Servant's quarters.

Narnia

That floor plan isn't quite right- the living has doors out onto the patio, as does the bedroom. It's the same space.

Harrods food hall

Pretty sure that would've been electric under floor heating.

Water based under floor heating is, or at least should, be cheaper to run than radiators. If it isn't then there's something wrong with it...... Or something else wrong with it other than the fact it doesn't work at all.....

Whole house, on 24/7. Not smart, £600 extra!

That must have been electric? Water UFH systems are the cheapest form of heating available, it would be near impossible for this type of system to run 24/7..

I have fitted it in my last two homes and would never look back.

If on the other hand it is electric then yes than can work out very expensive to run!

Can confirm that electric underfloor heating is less economical than warming the flat by burning £20 notes.

Ditto

My electric underfloor heating broke last winter and the wife keeps asking when I will get it fixed. Unfortunately for her I pay the bills in this house.

Agree with this. If it was advertised in the specs when they were selling it then it should work. If they'd just said "oh btw we didn't mention it but apparently there is underfloor heating. We never got it to work but you never know your luck" then it's just a potential bonus.

Yeh must have been. In terms of £ spent per square inch of heated floor used... I was not doing well.

I think hidden/misrepresentation is different to finding things that were not obvious on day -1.

Quick question

Assuming this is leasehold, do you not have to keep everything working as it isn't actually yours?
If the lease sill has 94 years then sure you do not need to worry, but what would happen if it had 4?

One imagines the sellers will not voluntarily bring this up to the next viewers and are not in the process of getting it fixed. Your repair bill won't be too bad but hand the sellers a yellow pages and they probably couldn't identify the correct firm to come out and fix it.

The good news is you won't be ripping up any floorboards
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/572ce6730442625c7b204d5e/t/57978571d482e9f4a185e4c2/1469547894362/Underfloor+Heating.jpg?format=2500w)

The continuous coils of pipe are linked back to an above ground manifold. All joints are above ground.
(https://www.underfloorheatingsystems.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Manifold-at-Fairlands-20130228-1024x768.jpg)

It has to be that way as the pipework gets buried in cement. Lovely grey cement.
(http://screedunderfloorheating.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/slider_3.jpg)

Decent chance it's an actuator or electronic device that can be fixed without touching the pipework. If not, it's a pump or blending valve on the manifold. They probably think it's more expensive to fix than it should be.

^^^^

Really good post, explanatory photos and everything. Have to deduct 2 marks though.

".....buried in cement. Lovely grey cement".

Please. It's concrete, not cement.

Duly noted. I knew you'd keep me right if my terminology was incorrect.

It's latex screed if we're being fussy.

Happy to accept that. Just not "cement", please. That's like confusing slates and tiles, or a roof and a ceiling. Alex is posh, so these things are all new to him.

Actually, it's a latex mix until it sets, at which point it becomes latex screed. Screed is not liquid. If we're being fussy.

Nice work  :)up

I only had a vague idea because I'm doing up a house at the moment that's having underfloor heating and my builder was advising about the screed over the pipes.

Apparently you can also use a sand/cement screed but that's not always appropriate.

"F**k that sand and cement s**t youth. You want the liquid latex. F**kin' goes down piece of p**s ".

So now we know.

Perfect.

We got there.

Very helpful post McGlashan :)

Your welcome. The first thing you said was you are exchanging contracts and I missed that  ;whistle;

In an ideal world the seller rectifies the issue and then you proceed like normal. See what your property solicitor advises. The catch being it's not some free quotation jobby. Diagnosing where the fault lies will involve some expertise so don't expect that to be free (the underfloor stuff is still a niche subject). Afterwards it's a straight forward case of sourcing and installing the replacement part.