Ruling at IPO Side Event

[DaveShoelace]

So I'm in a side event at the IPO at the weekend and we are about 7 places off the money, I have about 70k and the blinds are 3000/6000 with no antes. I have pocket jacks and raise to 15k from the hijack and it folds to a French guy on the button who has about 44k. He minraises to 30k, leaving himself about 14k. It folds back round to me and he says to me (I do this in a Borat voice) "I ave a good and".

So I am about to reraise him, from watching this guy play my pocket jacks were pretty much the nuts and I wasnt really worried about the min raise at all. He then says to me "If you raise, I call, I ave a good and".

So I reraised all in and he doesnt announce call, instead his instantly flips over ace-nine of clubs. I thought he had folded, as did the dealer, and I said in disbelief and with a chuckle "I cant believe you folded" and the dealer put his hand in the muck and started moving the pot towards me. Frenchy then started protesting saying he had called, I told him he hadnt called after I had gone all in, the only time he said the word 'call' was his speech before I had acted. The dealer then told him he never heard him call my bet, the first announcement of a call before I acted didn't count and he should have protected his hand.

The floor came over and eventually ruled that his 'intention was clearly to call' so it counts, and the dealer fished his cards out of the muck and played the rest of the hand out. Naturally the first card out was an ace and I was crippled (I min cashed in the end huzzah).

I remember this situation came up with Ian Frazer at a GUKPT, although the difference was this time I was hoping it was deemed a fold and the previous time Frazer was trying to force a call. Based on that, it was probably a correct ruling, but just about everyone else I have told this too thinks it should have been ruled a fold by Frenchy and prior to having heard the Frazer hand I would have 100% said so too. I personally was much happier to take down the 69k pot uncontested than gamble for an 84k pot even though I was the favourite, is that too nitty? I guess if I had aces I would have fought tooth and nail to make the call stand, so I am probably being a bit results orientated.

[KarmaDope]

TL; DR

His hand hit the muck. Therefore it's a fold.

[StuartHopkin]

TL; DR

His hand hit the muck. Therefore it's a fold.

Fuck the muck.

Sounds like he flipped his hand because he thought he had called.
Ruling sounds pretty fair to me.

[gatso]

TL; DR

His hand hit the muck. Therefore it's a fold.

please never apply for a job in a cardroom

[outragous76]

This is a call. Gukpt last year, a ruling was given on the same basis (although bloke didn't want to call but was forced to due to verbal declartion being binding.

gave correct ruling. Surely you don't think he is folding an ace getting a million to 1?

[kinboshi]

He's French - he was obviously calling.

[gatso]

but just about everyone else I have told this too thinks it should have been ruled a fold by Frenchy

they said that so you'd stop complaining. it's like when someone tells me a badbeat story I tend to go 'oh that's sick' rather than taking the time to explain that in fact they played it horribly and it wasn't really a badbeat in the hope that it'll end the conversation

even if the verbal wasn't deemed as binding (which is cardroom dependent) flipping your cards certainly isn't a fold

[kinboshi]

The TD made a good ruling during the main event.

Drunk Irish fella who'd been annoying the table since his late arrival was trying to get under everyone's skin (and on the whole, succeeding) was giving a speech to another player who he was heads-up with on the flop.  The other player bet and drunken-Irish man called and flipped his cards over, showing he had top pair with a king kicker.  The other player asked if that was a fold (presumably before he mucked his own cards), and dealer then looked to see the revealed cards. The TD was called, and he asked the drunken-Irishman if he'd intentionally flipped his cards or if it was an accident.  He said it was an accident, at which point it was made clear it was no accident.

The TD said that as he'd intentionally revealed his cards, his hand was now dead, and then told him he had a one orbit penalty before he could continue playing.

A decision warmly appreciated by everyone at the table.  The player was also later warned that if he continued with his borderline-abusive speech play he'd receive another penalty.

[DaveShoelace]

but just about everyone else I have told this too thinks it should have been ruled a fold by Frenchy

they said that so you'd stop complaining. it's like when someone tells me a badbeat story I tend to go 'oh that's sick' rather than taking the time to explain that in fact they played it horribly and it wasn't really a badbeat in the hope that it'll end the conversation

even if the verbal wasn't deemed as binding (which is cardroom dependent) flipping your cards certainly isn't a fold

You are probably right, especially as what immediately followed from the ruling story was a bad beat story. 

[gatso]

The other player bet and drunken-Irish man called and flipped his cards over

so how is ruling his hand dead a good ruling?

[kinboshi]

The other player bet and drunken-Irish man called and flipped his cards over

so how is ruling his hand dead a good ruling?

...as he intentionally revealed his cards during the hand and this was obviously against the rules they were using.

[gatso]

The other player bet and drunken-Irish man called and flipped his cards over

so how is ruling his hand dead a good ruling?

...as he intentionally revealed his cards during the hand and this was obviously against the rules they were using.

it's heads up, A bets, B calls and flips his cards. that is not against the rules of any card room on the planet

[DaveShoelace]

The other player bet and drunken-Irish man called and flipped his cards over

so how is ruling his hand dead a good ruling?

...as he intentionally revealed his cards during the hand and this was obviously against the rules they were using.

it's heads up, A bets, B calls and flips his cards. that is not against the rules of any card room on the planet

It was on the flop and not all in.

[Cf]

The other player bet and drunken-Irish man called and flipped his cards over

so how is ruling his hand dead a good ruling?

...as he intentionally revealed his cards during the hand and this was obviously against the rules they were using.

it's heads up, A bets, B calls and flips his cards. that is not against the rules of any card room on the planet

course it is.

heads up in a pot in a cash game is fine.

heads up in a pot in a tourney is not. unless the tourney itself is down to heads up.

[gatso]

oh right. I should've read that bit as well instead of assuming it was on the river