Follow through

[TightEnd]

40 left in a small live freezeout

blinds are 200-400/25

We are playing 15k, an average stack


UTG limps, this is not unusual for this newish player, and has so far been a marginal hand, folding to a raise or folding on the flop if limp calling

UTG+1 1200. Active opener/raiser. His view of me is as being very tight. He has recently told the table this

In the cut off I 3 bet to 3,700 with 

Expect this to get through much of the time, based on UTG style and image with UTG+1


UTG now limp calls the 3 bet. Raised eyebrows either side of him. He is playing 12k behind

UTG+1 looks uncertain, tells UTG he has priced him in and calls

Pot now 11,800 or so

I have 11,100 back

flop 

Both quickly check to me


I can check and fold to action down the streets and be playing just under 30xbb stack which is perfectly fine

I can c-bet 1/2 pot (to fold)

I can shove and double my stack if uncalled, and its reasonable to expect both will have missed a lot of the time?   


Thoughts please on the flop decision.

[George2Loose]

Give up

[muckthenuts]

Your preflop play is awful. Shove now you're here

[outragous76]

im assuming you have a fairly tight image?

TBF, you couldnt ask for much more of a flop to c-bet (other than the 2 clubs being there)

bet 40% pot - then give up if called

[TightEnd]

Your preflop play is awful, now you're in this spot shove all in

ok. tell me why it was awful, that would be more helpful

[muckthenuts]

Your preflop play is awful, now you're in this spot shove all in

ok. tell me why it was awful, that would be more helpful

Firstly it's a way too shallow a stack to get creative, ~40-50bb's is a little more ideal as a minimum as it gives you some manouverability post, here as you can see you're left with none. 3b bigger pre if you're going to do it and perhaps pick a hand that won't flop as bad as 56o generally does

[George2Loose]

muckthenuts is right aboot pre but I would give up here. U have zero equity against two players who cannot fold. UTG might give you a spin with J10.

[Moskvich]

im assuming you have a fairly tight image?

TBF, you couldnt ask for much more of a flop to c-bet (other than the 2 clubs being there)

bet 40% pot - then give up if called

Personally, now you are where you are, I'd bet more like a third pot. Then if called by UTG+1 just give up. If called by UTG only and checked to you I think you might have a decent chance of getting a turn shove through, depending on reads and given UTG's description.

[Rupert]

Preflop is terrible.  There are so many better hands you can 3 bet (hands with blockers, hands that aren't quite strong enough to call, suited hands that have some equity postflop), your read that he was folding a lot is probably quite a bit off given that it's a live small freezeout, your sizing is far too big for your 3 bet to be too efficient etc etc.

On the flop check/fold.  Your hand is awful.

[Solaris]

Preflop is terrible.  There are so many better hands you can 3 bet (hands with blockers, hands that aren't quite strong enough to call, suited hands that have some equity postflop), your read that he was folding a lot is probably quite a bit off given that it's a live small freezeout, your sizing is far too big for your 3 bet to be too efficient etc etc.

On the flop check/fold.  Your hand is awful.

+1

Pretty much all of this.

[the sicilian]

Okay.. we are looking at this from the wrong angle....first..i agree pre flop is pretty ugly because we haven't thought what we will do if we are called.

We have to consider who and what we are up against. Forget our hand its irrelevant.

So utg is standard luton newbie who will limp call pretty much any bet.... +1 is a bit active and his range is quite wide.

utg has called... his hand is now defined better as random ace small/middle pairs and pictures of the kq kj variety.. these limp callers ranges at luton are very transparent..if he had limped with a monster his default is to shove because these players still think limping with aces utg is the move of champions.

+1 has already given his hand strength away indicating his only calling because of the  misperception that he has to for odds ( the fact he is out of position and already believes he is way behind and probably kissing these chips goodbye is beyond him , once again any one with any poker savvy with a monster here is raising or shoving as he needs this coup hup ...he obv would rather fold here as he knows you play a tight game and believes you have a big hand....

they now both check the indifferent flop.... to bet fold here is terrible...we will end up putting a large % of our stack in to fold.

i think we are left with c/fold or shove...we have one big bullet and live lutoners hate calling big shoves unless they really have something. in this situation with the info gathered i would shove here...theres too much out there to let go so easily and if we have chosen to play with fire we cant afraid to be burnt..

if someone got tricky here and has u so be it....we just have to consider the consequences of our preflop action a little more for future hands.

[Free_Rollin]

Pre is bad since we are not deep enough, but I think pre is even worse if we're going to check fold this flop. Since you're in this spot, I'd c-bet, and yeah folding to any other resistance.

[outragous76]

Pre is bad since we are not deep enough, but I think pre is even worse if we're going to check fold this flop. Since you're in this spot, I'd c-bet, and yeah folding to any other resistance.

This for me

[smashedagain]

saw the title and thought you'd shit your pants. sorry nothing to see so moving on now.
by the way if you wanna know how to beat the donks in the small mid stake games or how to win seats come n see me. (start with idiots cant fold)
rupert and keys just about have the on lin e game nailed between em so stick with them.

[celtic]

How can we check fold this flop? We are in position. No?