Why I am growing to LOATHE internet poker....

[thetank]

If for example we had a table with , You , Me, MikkyT, Tank, Andrew, Timaloy, Dave C, Teacake, Scottish Dave and Tony C.  That would be a solid poker fest with  few buyins

LOL, If I was at that table, there'd be buy-ins a plenty.

Pissing contests going on all over the shop.

[Newmanseye]

Well thats can be argued, as there are games where its a good solid poker night with little gambling, however there are the occassional nutters that come in to the foray who will take any 2 cards.

If for example we had a table with , You , Me, MikkyT, Tank, Andrew, Timaloy, Dave C, Teacake, Scottish Dave and Tony C.  That would be a solid poker fest with  few buyins but some great poker being played as the quality of the players justifies it.

I'm sorry but given the choice between an easy tournament with a big smattering of fish and a few good players and a tournament with lots of good solid players and only a few fish - i know which i'd be picking........

Its always each to their own - with you playing the game that you feel most comfortable with, be it live or online. I much prefer and enjoy to play live tourneys but its a lot lot easier to make a decent profit playing online especially as there are a lot less overheads to eat into your profit margin.

A good poker player will soon learn to adapt to his/her surroundings - where ever they are playing.

 I aggree that a good poker player will adapt to their surrounding's Matt, i however foud that I have better results when playing against Top notch tough players, when it comes to me at a table full of gambling fish, I cant seem to get my game on. This is something I am working on however its probably because i have been playing about 8 months and most of that has been in Live cash games.

Back to laz's point he was unlucky that the bloke paired both of his rags, however its is a feeling that I know all too often as well particularly online.

I respect your opinion on this I just have a different one.

[matt674]

My point is this, Online you have more people Gambling with raggy hands like   only because they are suited or   because its an ace where as it causes your big hands although ahead to begin with you are going in for a crap shoot.

Which surely as a good poker player is what you want?!?!? lots of players with less than average skill playing mediocre hands because they dont know any different...

How can constantly going in with the best hand be a crap shoot??? Law of averages says that the best hand will stand up more and therefore you will win more than you lose....

I know its just your opinion, thats why in an earlier post i said "its each to his own - all you can do is play the game that you feel most comfortable with" as more often than not you will make most of your profit at the game you feel most at ease with

[Newmanseye]

I don't understand why people complain because their opponents play badly. Would you rather be up against Phil Ivey?

If you're losing money regularly then it is not because everybody else is stupid.

I only lose money online, not live, Its just a game I cant adjust to, I believe that chubbs has the same challange.

[WellChief]

I honestly can't see how any good player can lose money online.

[matt674]

 I aggree that a good poker player will adapt to their surrounding's Matt, i however foud that I have better results when playing against Top notch tough players

I have always said that i prefer to play against better players because when playing at a table with 9 newbies you will struggle - How can i figure out how they are playing when they have no idea themselves.

However i'd still much rather play against players who are slightly less than average than ten of the worlds best - granted you can only take your game to the top level when you can play against and beat the best but i dont need to when there is plenty of money on offer at the lower levels

[Wardonkey]

I don't understand why people complain because their opponents play badly. Would you rather be up against Phil Ivey?

If you're losing money regularly then it is not because everybody else is stupid.

I only lose money online, not live, Its just a game I cant adjust to, I believe that chubbs has the same challange.

You need to look at your game first, you cannot blame the fish. What do you do differently when playing on-line? It is the same game after all.

A simple game is the best way to get the money against poor players, on-line or live. If you're over complicating things in these games then you are playing badly yourself.

[NoflopsHomer]

If you've got fish, overbet your big pairs, especially AA and KK, you'll still get a couple of callers with rags.

He did after the flop - was just unfortunate that his opponent paired up both his rags.

That's poker for you...............

Sorry, I meant preflop.

[Newmanseye]

My point is this, Online you have more people Gambling with raggy hands like   only because they are suited or   because its an ace where as it causes your big hands although ahead to begin with you are going in for a crap shoot.

Which surely as a good poker player is what you want?!?!? lots of players with less than average skill playing mediocre hands because they dont know any different...

How can constantly going in with the best hand be a crap shoot??? Law of averages says that the best hand will stand up more and therefore you will win more than you lose....

I know its just your opinion, thats why in an earlier post i said "its each to his own - all you can do is play the game that you feel most comfortable with" as more often than not you will make most of your profit at the game you feel most at ease with

Heads up yes, you want to be in against the mugs with the rags, As laz was in his post, I often find that you are in a pot with anything from 2 other people to 4 other people, I think this may be reflective of the limits I am playing at online BTW,  

I just happen to empathise with Laz as I  feel that the outdraws and the bankroll busting defeats happen more online as there are more fish per ratio to decent players, and unless you know how to play against them 2, 3, 4 handed it can be pretty tough on the old moral and the bankroll that you have just spent 4 days grinding up to a decent amount.

[lazaroonie]

Actually I was trying to keep it simple - it was only the fourth hand or so of a STT.... so I though a raise to 4 X BB was reasonable...

I can understand the concept that we shoule encourage crap players. because in the long run the statistics will even themselves out, and the good will triumph....but my problem is that I dont play often enough to even out the variance - I dont really play for the money, I play for the enjoyment and leisure. I just get hacked off when fishy plays spoil my enjoyment.

Maybe I should go back to ladbrokes - Generally I found the games there much more "enjoyable" and less frivilous...

[Newmanseye]

I don't understand why people complain because their opponents play badly. Would you rather be up against Phil Ivey?

If you're losing money regularly then it is not because everybody else is stupid.

I only lose money online, not live, Its just a game I cant adjust to, I believe that chubbs has the same challange.

You need to look at your game first, you cannot blame the fish. What do you do differently when playing on-line? It is the same game after all.

A simple game is the best way to get the money against poor players, on-line or live. If you're over complicating things in these games then you are playing badly yourself.

I dont blame the fish, far from it, I know that I just dont know how to play against a few of them at the same time.

Like I said before my live game is better as I have an uncanny knack for picking up physical tells, This puts me at an automatic disadvantage online as I cant see my opponents.

I take onboard that I must improve and diversify my game in order to incorporate beating these less than premium players. I just know that if I play live i dont have this problem and find it much easier to beat these people in a live format.

[Wardonkey]

Laz, I wasn't suggesting that you misplayed that particular hand. I was trying to address Newmaneyes' problem with beating on-line games.

[matt674]

neither was i - i was just trying to make the point that it isnt just online where things like that would happen and at the end of the day if i'm getting my QQ called by 10-6 every time then i'm going to win more than i lose which hopefully will mean plenty of MTT cashes.

I once said on another post - "AA loses to 7-2 o/s when all in preflop 12% of the time, it looks bad - it feels f**king awful but i'll take my chances with it every time. It just a matter of how you cope with the 12 times out of 100 when you lose"

[JungleCat03]

Personally i would say the raise is too small, it is a tiny fraction of your stack. It invites any pocket pair in to make a set and stack you on a low flop.

T6c isn't the kind of hand i would like to be calling raises as you will miss far too often  but suited connectors and low pairs will frequently call these raises and you will often go bust/ or win a small pot.

To call this guy a fish is wrong in my view, other than the min raise on the flop which i rarely like, and gives his hand away somewhat, screaming out set to me.

Remember he got the majority of his chips in ahead!

I would raise more preflop. A raise to 80 is not a big raise and out of position it is very dangeorus.
If he had called with 66 or 44 would he still be a fish? You still go broke or win a very small pot.

When the  blinds are very low in proportion to the stacks, i prefer to look at raises in terms of % of stacks instead of BBs. If the players are bad they will call off a high % of their stack and you won't give them implied odds to stack you.

[Longy]

The reality is in deep stack poker 50bb+ the implied odds are massive if you hit your hand big even with rags. That is why big pairs have to be played with some caution in this situation. Its a harsh lesson but you have to know when to fold big pairs, yet its very tricky is your fishy opponent here going to fold when he hits just the 10 or has a flush draw. IMO probably not and that is why his call preflop is a losing one.

As for the live vs internet arguement stick with what you enjoy. I must admit to being a more successful online player i think due to my discipline and a wider choice of game, tho i love playing live. As i often say i play live for the social interaction and online to make money (tho i do enjoy it to a certain degree).