Interesting steal attempt...your thoughts?

[KarmaDope]

Situation is as follows:

ITM in a DeepStack $11 MTT. You're on average chips and cover everyone else by some distance. Villain is quite tight, but seems to have some understanding of the game and can make moves.


Seat 1: zipoker (21195 in chips)
Seat 2: JERONIMOX10 (16165 in chips)
Seat 3: sharplea (36324 in chips)
Seat 4: GRKG (13827 in chips)
Seat 6: NERO 10 (15408 in chips)
Seat 7: Delorion123 (7740 in chips)
Seat 8: lettieri (21401 in chips)
Seat 9: golf0802 (26833 in chips)
zipoker: posts the ante 75
JERONIMOX10: posts the ante 75
sharplea: posts the ante 75
GRKG: posts the ante 75
NERO 10: posts the ante 75
Delorion123: posts the ante 75
lettieri: posts the ante 75
golf0802: posts the ante 75
NERO 10: posts small blind 400
Delorion123: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sharplea [ ]
lettieri: folds
golf0802: folds
zipoker: folds
JERONIMOX10: folds
sharplea: raises 1200 to 2000
GRKG: calls 2000
NERO 10: folds
Delorion123: folds
*** FLOP *** [   ]

Your action?

[FuglyBaz]

As always it will depend on your read of the opponent. In this situation I would bet out to see where you stand. Suggest a half pot bet. If he comes over the top then re-evaluate depending.

Can I just make a suggestion regarding your pre-flop raise too. It is far too small a raise. The bet is near enough a min raise and this will give too many people the odds to call. The size of the raise is made more horrible by the fact that there are antes in play. Your raise is juicing up the pot and with KQo in the mid stage of a tournament I don't believe you should play the hand in this way. I think you need to make a raise between 2.6k & 2.8k total.

[LeKnave]

Your raise is juicing up the pot and with KQo in the mid stage of a tournament I don't believe you should play the hand in this way. I think you need to make a raise between 2.6k & 2.8k total.

The preflop raise size is absolutely fine.  People play so badly post flop it doesn't really matter if they enter the pot with you.

I would probs lead like 2775 or something into the flop.

[Longy]

Im a fan of the preflop raise, i know we are giving the blinds a good price to call. I like to look on it as that we should be confident (ish) in our postflop play and we has position postflop. Also the time the steal does work will show us a greater profit to risk ratio. With a read that either the blinds are good postflop players, making it a bit more is fine imo.

Cbet that flop every time with a pair and a gutter, half to 2/3 thirds the pot imo.

[boldie]

Don't mind the pre-flop raise but now your OOP and that make it a bit trickier..i might check-raise here against a stacked up oppo but oppo here has only 10k left so I bet out 2/3 of the pot is fine...

[Horneris]

Im a huge fan of the preflop raise, you should be happy to play a flop.

I lead out 2,775 aswell (what the genius said).

[FuglyBaz]

I need all the people who've commented to explain the raise amount to me and why it is okay, because I genuinely don't understand why what is almost a min raise is seen as acceptable. Pot commitment post flop isn't a concern because of the stack in front of the hero so I can't see pot control being the issue.

I raise hands like KQ to take down the blinds or to isolate and play HU against one opponent. I'm comfortable in my post flop play against a large majority of the players in the smallest MTT levels because they are piss poor, but surely the more people that enter the pot the less comfortable you are going to be?

If three players called which I believe should've happened, then how can the hand be played properly post flop. Pot would stand at around 5000, and all the stacks could shove in this position to prevent others from playing.

I just think it's a tough way to play the hand even if you are a great post flop player.

As I say, I hope somebody can open my mind to another play here, because I'm just a little uncertain. I've always been a player who likes to bet between 3 and 3.5xBB to put pressure on players at this stage of a tournament. Would never min raise as it's a play I really dislike.

And before anyone asks, no this is not a wind up it is a genuine question

[boldie]

Because a raise to 2k achieves the same thing a raise to 2400 or 3200 achieves..there is no difference. It allows you to play a flop if called, represent some strenght, and (if necessary) means you haven't invested too much if it all kicks off between the guys that are still to act. It also still gets the blinds to fold most of the time as people associate a raise like that from relatively late position as a raise you have thought about and you could therefore have a monster.

KQ off is a hand you probably just want to take the blinds with BUT if you get called it's not the end of the world as it's a hand that plays well enough after the flop. therefore you don't need to stick in 3200 pre-flop to force the blinds out and almost commit yourself to calling every shove that follows.

I haven't explained this the best and I'm sure more articulate responses will follow but I only recently found out that a 2/3rd bet on the flop (or even half pot) ussually does the same in a tourney as a full pot bet does and the same goes for pre-flop raises.

[Royal Flush]

If i have KQ in LP i don't want just the blinds, i really want the SB to make some spwey call with a likely dominated hand, Q9 K8 etc, so try and price them in. I am never going to lose a big pot with the hand unless someone makes 2 pair on me and i can stack someone.

[doubleup]

Baz, the idea of 2.5x raises when there are antes in play is:

that they can be profitable on their own i.e you will take down the pot enough times

If you get action it will be from a far wider range than from the larger raise

By reducing the size of the initial bet you are increasing fold equity if you want to 4 bet push

If you have to fold to a reraise, you will not have significantly damaged you stack

[AlexMartin]

Baz, the idea of 2.5x raises when there are antes in play is:

that they can be profitable on their own i.e you will take down the pot enough times

If you get action it will be from a far wider range than from the larger raise

By reducing the size of the initial bet you are increasing fold equity if you want to 4 bet push

If you have to fold to a reraise, you will not have significantly damaged you stack

there you go baz, a quality response.

[FuglyBaz]

All those responses are brilliant. Just what I was after. Boldie explained well and doubleup really hit the nail on the head in simple to read terms.

It probably explain why I busted out of tournaments at crucial stages as 3-3.5xBB can be a little too much at times.

Again thank you, and to the OP ignore my response (if you haven't already )

Cheers
FugshlyBaz

[boldie]

Baz, the idea of 2.5x raises when there are antes in play is:

that they can be profitable on their own i.e you will take down the pot enough times

If you get action it will be from a far wider range than from the larger raise

By reducing the size of the initial bet you are increasing fold equity if you want to 4 bet push

If you have to fold to a reraise, you will not have significantly damaged you stack

Damn, now doubleup is more articulate than I am ...of all the people!

[KarmaDope]

I was happy to play a flop with this hand, however, when I saw that flop, this happened:

*** FLOP *** [ As]

sharplea: checks
GRKG: bets 2400
sharplea: folds
Uncalled bet (2400) returned to GRKG
GRKG collected 5800 from pot

Yeah, yeah, I know. I pussied out.

The main reason I posted this in here was to show the newbies how not to make a steal attempt at this stage when you are faced with stacks a lot smaller than yourself. Also, I had a good feeling that no matter what I bet, he was shoving, and let this cloud my judgment.

I should have bet, and I probably would have taken the pot down there and then if I was ahead.

[Royal Flush]

I should have bet check called, and I probably would have taken the pot down there and then won a nice pot if I was ahead.