blonde poker forum

Played in a live comp last night and would like your opinions on a ruling made by the cardroom supervisor.

20 runners started, down to the last 4 (top 5 get paid).

Blinds at 2k/4k, and I have 20k on the BB.

UTG flat calls, leaving himself with 6.5k.

UTG+1 folds.

SB calls (SB is big chip leader).

I look down and find pocket 7's, and move all-in.

UTG fires in his remaining 6.5k.

SB folds. Cards on their backs. My pocket 7c 7s vs. Kh 6h.

Flop comes 10s Kd 9c. Turn is 8s.

UTG ahead, but I have an up & down draw. River comes 7h.

I make my trips, dealer pushes the pot to me, all cards pushed in and dealer starts to shuffle for the next hand.
I've stacked my chips up, button moved and I'm about to post my SB for the next hand.

Someone then mentions that the UTG player made a straight on the previous hand. Everyone at the table missed it,
including all four players, the dealer and the cardroom supervisor who was sat at the table during the hand.

Now a ruling is asked for.

What should the ruling be...? (I'll post the actual ruling made later...)

If i were TD then i would rule the hand dead as once the dealer had made the mistake then the player who's hand had hit the 10 high straight should have pointed it out that his hand had in-fact won. However if that player mucked his cards then its his own fault.

But then i'm a cruel monkey and i'm guessing that due to the fact that you are posting this thread that they didnt do that and gave him his chips back.

Chances are though different casinos will come up with different rulings - all the more reason why we need a universal set of rules!!

Tough shit, next case! Once the money has been passed and the flop destroyed. There is no redress!!

Unless however, the person who has been passed the chips as the assumed winner, recalls the hand and everyone agrees then you can, if you feel its right give the player his own bet back. All players must be in agreement for this to happen including you.

But the ruling is as stated, no redress or any claim on the pot can be entered into after the flop has been destroyed, and the next hand started.

His hand is dead and therefore cant claim the pot , its too late.

UTG is a muppet for limping with that poo, then missing the fact that he hit the str8.  He deserves to lose the chips!   ;goodvevil;

Yes, he should have been pushing allin to start with and then paid attention IMO.

I am confused, there is no straight there, I think he meant the hand previous to this one?

the first card on the flop ( Ts) appears as text on winkie's post, the  Kh 6h makes a str8 on the river

ah ha  ::) thought summat was missing LOL >:?

I'm guessing the TD gave the pot to the other chap.
I've done this before but not late on or in a big pot, realised i should have won the previous pot and kicked myself for being a muppet.

if you know for a fact he had the straight you should INSIST he take the chips. if you dispute the straight was there it's his fault for not waiting until he had the chips before releasing his cards.

I'm guessing they copped out and checked the cameras? Its what they usually do to cover themselves


As it stands the cards are dead and the pot is yours as "cards speak" only if they are live

I reckon the fact he has posted this that UTG +1 has ben given the full pot.

I am in agreement with whats posted though if the dealer cocls up and pushed the pot to a player and mucks the cards then the cards are dead, the right think to do if you seen the straight would be to give him back hi ALL IN BET and you take the rest.

This is what actually happened...

Cardroom supervisor leaves the cardroom and asks the casino floor manager for his opinion...!!!

What's the point in having a cardroom supervisor if they are:
a) unsure of the "correct" rules
b) do not have the power/confidence in making a ruling
c) needs to ask the casino floor manager (who's not the cardroom manager) for a ruling

The ruling was that I had to give the pot to the player UTG, even though the hand was dead.

My understanding is that as soon as the chips have been pushed to the player the dealer deems to have won the pot,
the cards are collected by the dealer and shuffled back into the deck, the hand is dead.

Any problems/issues must be brought up when the hand is still live and cannot be argued after the hand.

The UTG player would have gone out in 4th and I would have had a 35k stack.

Instead, the UTG now has 21k and I'm down to 14k...!

I still managed to battle back to take 2nd and a nice £500 payday!

the player deems to have won the pot when all other cards have been mucked. that pot was yours because everyone at the table said so! you should have disputed the ruling both with voice and on paper. its about time that cardroom managers knew the rules and stuck by them.

BTW, where did the other player finish?

I did dispute the ruling, and made it crystal clear the ruling was wrong.

UTG finished 4th and UTG+1 finished 3rd.

Justice done in the end...!

where was this?

I'd rather not mention where this occurred, surffice to say it was at a UK casino that has a highly regarded cardroom.

The highly regarded cardrooms are highly regarded because the people they put in charge should be able to do their jobs and be capable of making decisions themselves. Having to ask a duty manager any ruling indicates that the person that was running the show on that night, would not be the usual TD, give us a clue? What Group?

Yep agree :)

i was there that night and i can say that the ruling was made by the card room supervisor who missed the straight even with cards on the back and then had to go to the pit for the ruling    everyone who has played a festival at this casino knows the person in question

So what card room is it?

If its so bad should we not try and discourage people from actually going their?

Sounds an interesting topic for Tikay to cover on the 425 show?

Out of interest if you had spotted he had a straight would you have pointed it out to him?

That's a shocking decision pete (winkie). Good of you not to mention the cardroom. If i was you i would have got up and left the casino and have a walk round luton for 5 mins then go back after calming down.



 ;goodvevil;

 :D :D :D