blonde poker forum

Ok thought I'd work through this hand i've just played.  It's higher stakes than i'm used to so I'm unsure how ive played this hand out of position..

Whats your next action, bearing in mind stack sizes.  Info on players is that Player A is fairly loose aggressive, Player B is run of the mill TAG player.

Real Money Ring Game
Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
The Cosmic Man 8161501-23878 Holdem No Limit $10/$20
[May 31 00:39:29] : Hand Start.
[May 31 00:39:29] : Seat 1 : MisterEko has $1,480
[May 31 00:39:29] : Seat 2 : shep2k has $2,308
[May 31 00:39:29] : Seat 3 : sistabossen has $4,092
[May 31 00:39:29] : Seat 4 : jehovah has $722.50
[May 31 00:39:29] : Seat 5 : Player A has $1,200
[May 31 00:39:29] : Seat 6 : Player B has $1,498.50
[May 31 00:39:29] : arne_and is the dealer.
[May 31 00:39:29] : MisterEko posted small blind.
[May 31 00:39:31] : shep2k posted big blind.
[May 31 00:39:31] : Game [23878] started with 6 players.
[May 31 00:39:31] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[May 31 00:39:31] : Seat 1 : MisterEko has Ac Kd
[May 31 00:39:31] : sistabossen folded.
[May 31 00:39:35] : jehovah folded.
[May 31 00:39:38] : Player A called $20 and raised $50
[May 31 00:39:41] : Player B called $70
[May 31 00:39:42] : MisterEko called $60
[May 31 00:39:45] : shep2k folded.
[May 31 00:39:46] : Dealing flop.
[May 31 00:39:46] : Board cards [7c 4h Kc]
[May 31 00:39:47] : MisterEko checked.
[May 31 00:39:54] : Player A bet $205
[May 31 00:39:59] : Player B called $205

I'd cr@p myself, wonder why the hell I have so much money in my account, then wonder why I'm gambling on a big no limit table with a load of sharks.  I'd then close the window, withdraw all the money and go on a nice holiday!!!

Did you not fancy a reraise preflop?  Define things a bit more?  Squeeze out player 2?

Player A could be making a continuation bet with QQ's or even possibly KQ or AK, hell, online he could be doing it with 83o. What would worry me is what was Player B calling with pre-flop and again on the flop. If you can figure that one out, your wiser than me.

I wouldnt like to call in this situation. I would either raise, trying to hopefully push both of them out, but able to get away from a re-raise and maybe save yourself more money in the long-term, or fold and hope one or both of them might have you creamed.

Min raise, its enough to ask the question!

I would say just marginally above the min raise - but thats just cause i have got a major issue with the min raise. If Player B is willing to call 205 from player A, he is going to call another 205 from you, now that the pot is bigger. I would say raise to 475, knowing that if he comes back over the top of you, your way behind, if he calls, then you need to be wary of a flush draw, or maybe even the same hand as you?

Unlikely he has the FD given we hold the Ac!

If i didnt have the Ac then it would have to be a bigger raise.

Good point, didnt pay enough attention. I would still not min raise, but i'm still scared of the board. For some reason when there is that much money at stake, TPTK doesnt seem so good.

check raise is very powerful here. Make a good reraise. Ask them the awkward question. Non nut flush draw should pass and any pair under KK should pass too. If you are up against AA or unlikely AK or a set hard luck

Why not re-raise pre flop? define your hand there and then, if you raise and are back raised then you can pass AK OOP easily IMO...at the very least you should get it HU

I think the way to play this is to reraise preflop. The action then comes back to player A and he needs a big hand to call here as he has a player to act behind. Then 1st to act you have to bet out a good sized bet not the full pot neccessarily but enough so you know where you stand.

As it is you have to reraise here to find out where you are so you will be spending the same amount .Raising pre flop and betting however would giive you a higher chance of winning the pot or definately knowing where you are. You shouldn't call here. You are behind or you arn't and the sooner you find out the better. A check raise will cost you a fair bit here both in $ and stack ratio but is essential IMHO.

Reraise preflop with AK?

Why???

AK is not a made hand. What happens if your opponent then pushes with JJ or QQ? Do you really want to call him and race off all your cash?

The best way to find out where you are would be to have lead out. You have hit tptk what kind of flop did you want? A check raise will cost you twice as much and you fear a big hand, then you can slow down with a check call (depending on the size of the bets) on later streets.

I generally don't like to reraise with AK out of position in cash.  I basically took the worst option here I think and flat called and see what happened on the turn.  Top pair isn't generally a hand I like to lose a buy in with so I was trying to keep the pot as small as possible as I was out of position.

The turn came a 4 to pair the board.  I think I made another mistake here but what would your play be now?

4 of clubs?

Sorry no it wasn't a club.

I'm not sure that calling to keep the pot small works very well though. Once you call the pot has become very large (~$800) and any bet on the turn is likely to be substantial whilst you still have no idea where you are.

I agree with Bongo...you either have to have a better idea where you are pre flop or on the flop


as it stands when it comes to a paired board on the turn I still haven't a clue and think by now I am trying to get to showdown as cheaply as possible....the time for finding out has gone and the time for damage limitation is uopn you

That was basically my thinking Tightend.   I played this hand pretty poorly, but if i had led out on the flop and had two flat calls what do I do on the turn?  Would I have had a better idea of where I was? 

Anyway I checked and it was checked around.  River came a 9h and I bet $300. Thoughts?

i like the check raise on the flop (with respect to Highstack's different opinion) as you can safely expect a C bet from Orig raiser and the check raise is v powerful...if he back raises after that then you know you are behind, IMO

If I lead out and get two calls I am no better off as you say


after it goes check, check check on turn I am check calling on river

Lead out on the river and you hate a re-raise...keep the pots as small as you can if you are not sure...and a lead on river after checking turn might attract a steal raise anyway

Dont like betting out on the river simply because I'm not very sure if i'm ahead and in those situations i'm happy to check it down or call a reasonably small bet.

The pot is approximately 1100 including your 300 river bet so if one of the two behind you decide to re-raise, what are you willing to call up to? A min raise of 300 is a 300 call into a pot of 1700 so you would have to call and to be honest, you'd probably have to call a re-raise of maybe about 600 given how much is in the pot unless you got a significant read off of them, which doesnt look likely given the hand history. I can see Player B raising behind you and put him on aces or or kings over fours, but thats cause at this sort of stakes, i'm extra cautious.

Yeah i wouldnt bet here. You are either a mile ahead or a mile behind. Check call is my play

I agree.

If it's checked around you haven't really lost me. If they bet then you might pick off a bluff and win more than you would have.

If you bet and they raise then it's just horrible for you.

In the end they both just called my bet, and mucked.  So did I maximise my winnings from the hand by playing it so badly?  Maybe.  I have no idea what they both had.

Is ther no way of getting then hand history downloaded and see what they had??

would be interesting


btw

ur way above my level so i wont comment

Not on Tribeca

As flushy says unfortunately Tribeca don't have this feature.  I'm interested in everyones comments it really doesn't matter what level you are.  I thought this hand was quite interesting as I won more from playing it badly than if I'd played it optimally.  Figuring what the other two had, maybe JJ/QQ for player 1 and KQ for player 2?

Hi Wellchief

Interesting hand

In spots like this short-handed... you can (and should) be re-raising here p/f with a pretty wide range, its pretty much like the Harrington squeeze play in a sense. You naturally do this because if you only re-rai with AA or KK, you are gonna get figured out pretty easily.

With AK you dont really raise here to squeeze, you raise here for value and/or to get smaller pairs folding.. what is his raising range? what is the callers calling range? both of these are dartford tunnel wide, AK is best preflop here a massive % of the time.. raise it up and proceed accordingly. Its not like they only give you action here when you are behind either, you get calls from AQ/QK 5/7 22 A/J all sorts.. people play VERY fast and VERY loose.. especially if they have position (this is a mistake I see people make in the tribeca games at the top level, because the stacks are shallower then anywhere else, they try to exploit position too often when it doesn't work.. assuming 75bb stacks)  Raising here really negates the positional disadvantage because it will get about 20~~25% of your stack in preflop if they call, and then you can play irish position post flop, safe in the knowledge that you will look pot stuck to your opponent so their bluffing frequency will go wayyyyyyy down (of course these are generalisations, but its a pretty good default line)

If one of both call preflop, then you just figure out a way to get your stack in the middle on that flop, and if you miss, then you play poker.. either lead/cr all in, whatever

If you had deeper stacks, you can play it more cautiously.. but with 75BB, you dont especially mind getting busy with AK preflop or on a K high flop.

AS for how the hand actually did play, well this is a function of the preflop play, you are in the dark a lot here. If you are a fan of variance, leading here to induce a raise from the PFR is a great way to get dead money in the pot.. of course it costs you your stack when you are beat, but that isn't going to be very often in these spots, and people are raising this lead a LOT because of the pre/postflop play.. and a reasonable % of the time, you will be ahead for stacks!!

as for the river lead, I like it a lot. I hate checking here as people can check behind too often, and the 4 pairing on the turn mst give you a lot of confidence that your hand is best, and it gives other peple confidence that "unless he has a K, my middling pair is good".. you have played the hand in such a manner that it betrays your hand strength.. and against the rite opponents this is devastating for them


Cliff notes: I like this line occasionally, but I wouldn't make it my default as it generally loses value.. I think u were lucky to stumble upon a good board and bad opponents