Title: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Junior Senior on June 13, 2006, 03:38:15 PM I am posting this as i know i played it horribly, i now know what i should have done but am interested in knowing how you play this?
$1-$2 PLO I have $82 left and have limped in the SB with 9c Ac 9d Jd There are 7 limpers and i am obviously first to act after the flop. The flop is: 9h 3c 6c Couldn't really be better, I have top set with the nut flush draw - ayyyyaaaarrrrr! I really should have checked here and check raised all-in if someone bet but i bet out the full pot $14. I get 2 callers. I like the fact i have callers as i pretty much have the deck crippled. I quickly tried to work out what the oppos likely hands were. I am putting at least one of them on 78 with a smaller flush draw (perhaps K high or Q high). I am quite sure i would get reraised with a set of 666 here. One of them could have 666 or 333 but its highly unlikely. if they make quads and me top boat then so be it. I supose i have to be affraid of overcards drawing to a higher set but that is also a slim chance. I am hoping for a a club and hope to get paid by a smaller flush. the turn comes.... Ts FFS!!! - this has to be the worse card in the deck! i have only $66 left, the pot is $56. - what should i do?? thoughts pls..... I am going out now but will post and look again later. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: The Baron on June 13, 2006, 07:41:13 PM Check then reassess after both have acted.
Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Junior Senior on June 14, 2006, 08:29:55 AM I checked. - The 1st guy bet $40 and the second guy called.
What now? Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: riverdave on June 14, 2006, 09:45:16 AM I'm allin for your remaining $66 it's likely you've gone behind now but you've got a lot of outs and all your outs are drawing to the nuts if you rule out quads and str8 flushes. With 3 way action you certainly can't pass your hand, i get the other $26 in to make sure you get paid by both as they could pass on river and there is still a slim chance you are in front.
Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Karabiner on June 14, 2006, 09:47:02 AM I would stick it all in, but I would have bet the turn because I knew that I was never going to pass.
You have 17 outs by my calculations and excellent pot odds to call. If the guy has hit a set of T's well that is unlucky, but you still have the flush to hit and you may still be winning. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Junior Senior on June 14, 2006, 11:09:39 AM Yes. I now know i should have moved in but sadly i didn't. Played it horribly, didn't catch a club and the board didn't pair and in deed both matey boys A and B had 78 for the nut straight.
I guess its one of those situations where you know you have gone behind but with the chips you have left versus what the pot is offering you just have to lump it in and hope to redraw to the nuts. thanks for confirming my weakness :D Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: The Baron on June 14, 2006, 12:39:07 PM Well if you are going to lump it in anyway then you may as well wait till both of their stacks are in.
If you lumped it in on the turn first to act but then scare one off you've only decreased your potential gain with the same odds to hit. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Karabiner on June 14, 2006, 01:04:09 PM Well if you are going to lump it in anyway then you may as well wait till both of their stacks are in. If you lumped it in on the turn first to act but then scare one off you've only decreased your potential gain with the same odds to hit. Is this not balanced by the fact that they may both fold ? Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: NoflopsHomer on June 14, 2006, 01:13:19 PM Well if you are going to lump it in anyway then you may as well wait till both of their stacks are in. If you lumped it in on the turn first to act but then scare one off you've only decreased your potential gain with the same odds to hit. Is this not balanced by the fact that they may both fold ? I agree with Karabiner, there's no point in calling all-in if there's at least a decent percentage chance that they'll fold anyway if you move in first. If they call you'll get the odds anyway, but at least you can get a shot to take the pot uncontested. P.S Junior, why hadn't you reloaded sooner? Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Junior Senior on June 14, 2006, 01:15:32 PM hmmmmm. Its a tough one. I can see baron's reasoning and Karabiner's points too - both are valid but i really don't think either of my oppos are folding.
I could not possibly see any other hands that they had. Most players do not go all-in in omaha cash without the nuts or a nut draw. As i had the nuts and 1 of the 2 obvious nut draws on the flop, i pretty much had the deck strangled. I therefore catagorically knew they both must have had 7-8. I therefore knew that with the Ts on the turn i had gone behind. I checked hoping they would both check (trapping) and i could catch up for free. If they bet i knew i was calling (therefore maximising my gain) as Baron states. There was no way they were going to fold the nuts or a big draw with my remaining stack so why lump it in when there was the slimmest chance they might both check - then if i don't improve i can always check/fold on the river? They both went all in and I ended up check/calling all in on the turn and missed. Comments.....? Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Junior Senior on June 14, 2006, 01:18:09 PM Well if you are going to lump it in anyway then you may as well wait till both of their stacks are in. If you lumped it in on the turn first to act but then scare one off you've only decreased your potential gain with the same odds to hit. Is this not balanced by the fact that they may both fold ? I agree with Karabiner, there's no point in calling all-in if there's at least a decent percentage chance that they'll fold anyway if you move in first. If they call you'll get the odds anyway, but at least you can get a shot to take the pot uncontested. P.S Junior, why hadn't you reloaded sooner? I didnt reload as I was just about ready for leaving when this hand came up. i had just suffered a minor beat previously for half my buy-in and felt tilty :-) - reloading when red tilty rage is setting in a recipe for a most disgusting cake in deed. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: NoflopsHomer on June 14, 2006, 01:56:18 PM Fair enough, I'm of the opinion though that the chances of them folding to your all-in bet are greater than the chances of them checking the turn with a straight that is still very vunerable, especially since if a scare card for them does come on the river following a check round would mean you won't get paid off.
Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Royal Flush on June 14, 2006, 04:40:17 PM Betting the turn is a mistake IMO. You let them off hands you have strangled and you are only beat by 1 hand, which is never passing!
By checking you may let 2 pair fill on the river and pay you off, or a pair/Khi fd combo complete, these hands would fold with ease on the turn. Betting the turn here is a bluff, and why bluff with the 2nd best hand? Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Karabiner on June 14, 2006, 05:30:36 PM Because you only have $66 which is going in anyhow. May as well get it in first imo.
Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Royal Flush on June 14, 2006, 06:14:16 PM Because you only have $66 which is going in anyhow. May as well get it in first imo. For what purpose? Push 2 pair or lower set out? Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Nem on June 14, 2006, 06:15:13 PM Betting the turn is a mistake IMO. You let them off hands you have strangled and you are only beat by 1 hand, which is never passing! By checking you may let 2 pair fill on the river and pay you off, or a pair/Khi fd combo complete, these hands would fold with ease on the turn. Betting the turn here is a bluff, and why bluff with the 2nd best hand? I agree. Good point. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Junior Senior on June 15, 2006, 01:04:09 PM thought we would get good debate on this. Its intereting to see how different people react to a situation where they know they have gone behind but also have the mindset that they know they are calling anyway.
I still am unsure as to the best play here. - i think i am still in favour of pushing the turn to be honest. maybe the really good disciplined omaha player would check fold here on the turn? Maybe i will Pm elblondie and milkybarkid and ask them to comment.... any further thoughts...... Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Royal Flush on June 15, 2006, 01:18:55 PM thought we would get good debate on this. Its intereting to see how different people react to a situation where they know they have gone behind but also have the mindset that they know they are calling anyway. I still am unsure as to the best play here. - i think i am still in favour of pushing the turn to be honest. maybe the really good disciplined omaha player would check fold here on the turn? Maybe i will Pm elblondie and milkybarkid and ask them to comment.... any further thoughts...... I really don't see this as a tricky turn! You have the 2nd nuts and are getting the odds to draw and crack the nuts. Its a check call untill the cows come home! Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Lee on June 15, 2006, 01:23:40 PM Those Cravendale cows, they always want their milk back.
Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Karabiner on June 15, 2006, 01:34:01 PM thought we would get good debate on this. Its intereting to see how different people react to a situation where they know they have gone behind but also have the mindset that they know they are calling anyway. I still am unsure as to the best play here. - i think i am still in favour of pushing the turn to be honest. maybe the really good disciplined omaha player would check fold here on the turn? Maybe i will Pm elblondie and milkybarkid and ask them to comment.... any further thoughts...... I really don't see this as a tricky turn! You have the 2nd nuts and are getting the odds to draw and crack the nuts. Its a check call untill the cows come home! Actually you have the 3rd nuts..... Furthermore, Flushy, part of your earlier reason for checking was to let two-paired hands catch up. If they are catching up then they don't have the nuts, and if they have tens over a free shot at another ten would make no sense to me, not to mention all the other straight cards that could appear. It seems to me that your logic is somewhat flawed here. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Milkybarkid on June 15, 2006, 02:18:11 PM I would actually bet $20-$26 on the turn. That way you are still tempting in the hands that you have strangled like lower set, two pair and smaller flush draws. if you bet full pot some hands you may want to call will pass. If you get reraised its an easy call i think.
I just don't see check folding as an option here even if one of them bets full pot and the other one folds. Even on the turn you have approximately 35-40% chance of catching up, so you are priced in to the call. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: Dubai on June 15, 2006, 02:42:13 PM I would auto fold.
Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: The Baron on June 15, 2006, 03:21:00 PM Well if you are going to lump it in anyway then you may as well wait till both of their stacks are in. If you lumped it in on the turn first to act but then scare one off you've only decreased your potential gain with the same odds to hit. Is this not balanced by the fact that they may both fold ? Agreed if BOTH fold but then you have to think about if you bet out and only one of them folds. You've just missed a treble up chance for virtually the same odds to hit when against both players. Title: Re: Omaha cash game quandry. Post by: RonK on June 24, 2006, 05:34:21 AM Firsly i think your check is the right play,its obvious at least one of these players has hit there straight on the turn
SO if u bet out 'HOPING' to scare them off ur just wishing and plain gambling and thus eliminating the skill involved,however by checking u got the 2 other players to put another 40 each into the pot making the pot 136,u had to put 40 into this pot so u were effectively getting 3.4-1 on ur money,u are 48% to hit so a check and call is justifiable |