blonde poker forum

Hi again all,

Back again for more good advice!

Once again played the 50 freeze at gutshot on thursday.  Think I'm addicted to this tourney, freezouts should be compulsory!

This is the hand in question.

Down to 15 players, I have 13000 points.  Blinds are at 500-1000 ish.

I look down to find QQ in the BB.  position 1 goes all in for 8000.  position 3 and button call.  Both have around 25000 before the call.

I think for a long time (must have been 3 minutes!) and eventually lay them down.   

My reasoning was that I must be up against at least 2 aces from the 3 hands, and poss even KK or AA.  I had time to play more poker and I would surely find a better spot than this.  I didnt think a re-raise all in would have pushed either of the other players off for 5k more, and i didnt want to play qq v 4 opponents.

As it turned out I would have won the hand, but I would have been up against AK, AQ, and 55.  When I revealed to the table i folded queens most thought i made the wrong move hence the question.  Even had one guy outside at the break telling me I was crazy to lay em!

For a change I actually think I'm in the right on this one L :D  thoughts?

How did you finish up in the comp, that will provide the best answer.

Personally, i would have laid them down too.

i would have been all in

reason your playing to win

chances with that much action your against 2 big aces and an underpair making you about 40% favourite to quadruple your stack

if you had only been against 2 oppos its much harder to call and easier fold

Earlier in the tournament i would have laid them down but you got to get some chips, your at the business end of the tourney and you gotta get some chips soon.

I would have raised all in. The first 8000 caller is likely to push over the top of your raise and hopefullly push out the other caller, if he had a huge hand AA,KK he would have gone all in himself (probably). I just can't see that your up against a monster as most players would raise to get heads up not call for a third of their stack. I at least would call and play at any flop without an overcard.

you could call and then move all in on the flop.

You stand a chance then of getting a hand like AK to fold.

Not for 5k with over 30 in the pot.

I have seen it many times.....

You know they aint passing pre flop, so what have you got to lose by trying? You could also get them to lay down an underpair.

we're talking about gutshot standard though.  QQ is all in for me.  I used to deal to them and the standard isn't like playing at the Vic  :o

not that the vic is that high man if i can money there anyone can

thats a good pass Phil. you're read right with that much action before you you are up agains either A,A K,K A,K for one of them. as two of them have you covered you are right to ditch them, as good as they look.

To answer kev's question I ended up in 6th place on the night, which I was happy with considering the cards I had during the night.  I didnt want that to affect any answers which is why i didnt put it in the first post.

When the final table of 9 kicked off I was in 8th place, but some kamikaze poker from the other shorter stacks helped me fade further into the money.  Thing is all the way through the final table I kept thinking how I could reallly be having some fun if I had played those queens!  The flipside is I could have been on my way home instead!

thanks for the views.

Off to Northampton now for the shootout - what on earth is poker starting at 10am for?!?!?

ok, im a pretty decent tourney player in the later stages i think, and have thought long and hard about your situation, firsty if the players at the table arent brilliant i am assuming they are playing a little loose, secondly most players are going to raise allin with kings or aces, its basic logic.
 This made me come to the decision that a re-raise allin with the queens were correct, here is my write-up:
You were actually 44% favourite on scooping the pot
If the short-stack who bet 8x the big blind did have aces or kings then you can still scoop the side pot against the other two players which will be 15000, thus making you a profit, this is what would have pushed me towards the decision of raising allin, anyhow too many players play too timid towards the end of a tourney to make the prizes or earn more money, if you have ever read super-system doyle says you should try and go out of a tourney in a bang and not just fade away.
 Anyway i dont dis-respect your fold here as it takes discipline to make that fold, but really i think the best move is to raise, remember if you do happen to be up against AA or KK from the short-stack then you still have a 20% chance of beating him.

Please tell me what you think of my math and decision

If one of your flat callers of the 8k bet had AA or KK wouldn't they have re-raised to isolate the original all in?

Mind you, the prospect of playing QQ on its back with possible four way action would have fazed me a bit too!

I would have gone all in, but certainly a tight one

yes also what i thought, not nice having QQ 4 way but there is also a 3 way pot in which you are going to be around 55-60% to win...not so daunting

Id take the two players flat calling as weakness and as such wouldnt put them on AA or KK, its also quite likely that they both hold an A.... one may have an underpair... im pretty sure if either had AA or KK theyd re-raise here

Id definately move over the top here, if both players fold to your re-raise your getting a shot at a 24k
+ pot for just 8k, agst a short stack who is likely to move all in with any pair, two picture cards etc..

Even at worse case scenario where ur up agst AA or KK (short stack) your still getting 4-1 for your money, any underpair your a massive favourite...

IF one of the flat callers decide to call your all in move, and you run into AA or KK thats just unfortunate. Anything other than either of those two hands, cept AK your gonna be a big favourite to win a massive pot/side pot

IMO

ALL IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :)