blonde poker forum

My biggest problem when playing an online game, or a live game is going out on the bubble. 

For example I had pocket 7s and I didnt know whether to raise or call, what are best hands to be playing, and should it be an all out attack, or should I play slow and steady

Please help

x x

Hi Tig,

You'll need to give us a bit more to go on before we can answer your question. How you play around the bubble is a very important part of tournament play but you don't give us any details of your specific problems in this area and your example gives us on one detail 'I have a pair of sevens'.

If your concerned about how you played a particular hand then give us as much detail as possible; stacks sizes of you and your oppostion, your table position, your opponents style of play, your table image and the type of tournament you are playing. Dig up a hand history or two of hands you have played around the bubble which you feel you might have played differently and someone will come up with something insightful.

Have trawl through past threads on here to see if you can find something useful. There are excellent books available, many reviewed on the main site, which will help your tournament play. Harrington Vols 1 and 2 are particularly good.

As it stands the question you have asked is just 'too big' to answer!

yeah agrreed  with the above post Harrinton explains it well

Harrington 3 provides further illumination,actually ur cards are only one small factor when deciding to play on the bubble...stack sizes,blind sizes and percentage plays all come to the fore in this area..

but generally H goes supertight around the bubble with his starting requirements..if all players are on level stacks

How do I get a hand history? I don't get them sent to my email. Can I have one sent to me while I'm playing?

If someone can tell me how to do it, I'll get one on asap.

tank has taught me to be aggressive, but I sometimes don't have the balls, as you say....because I'm thinking too much about the cards I have in my hand.  He has taught me to think more about the stack sizes, because when it comes to it, you don't necessarily have to see the flop.  Its all about protecting your blind, or stealing off those you know are not going to bet into you for whatever reason.

I find it hard to judge what is the best position to raise , and which is to fold.  I know some positions are better than others to be in.

And the way you play the hand has so many different factors to it, ie position, you're stack size, the stack size of everyone round you and the way people have been playing through the game.

Does that make it any clearer??

An example would be, when I was at the Motherwell event for P4C, I was at the final table, with the big blind, I had the smallest stack out of the 5 of us, and I had K Q.  tank said that the next hand I should play needs to be all in.  So I thought why not go with that.  AS he told me on the way home, this was the wrong thing to do,  but I ain't really sure why.

I found out what to do, right heres an example of a hand, should I have folded that  Js Qd ?

(200/400) - 2006/07/01 - 15:47:38 (ET)

Seat 2: die182 (11285 in chips)
Seat 3: tigscoco (1635 in chips)
Seat 7: Allee Cat077 (1085 in chips)
Seat 9: outsoon (995 in chips)

die182: posts small blind 200
tigscoco: posts big blind 400

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to tigscoco [Js Qd]

Allee Cat077: raises 660 to 1060 and is all-in
outsoon: folds
die182: calls 860
tigscoco: folds

*** FLOP *** [9d Jc 6c]

*** TURN *** [9d Jc 6c] [8d]

*** RIVER *** [9d Jc 6c 8d] [2c]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

die182: shows [3d Ad] (high card Ace)
Allee Cat077: shows [Th Jh] (a pair of Jacks)
Allee Cat077 collected 2620 from pot

Board [9d Jc 6c 8d 2c]

Seat 2: die182 (small blind) showed [3d Ad] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 3: tigscoco (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Allee Cat077 showed [Th Jh] and won (2620) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 9: outsoon (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Yup, you want to be first in the pot and if two people are all in then leave em to it. I generally tend to raise any ace in an unopened pot.

Forget your kicker, in the above you should be asking yourself if you can call two allins with Q-high?

right okya, so basically any ace?

Im always to scared jsut incase it takes me out of the game, should I even be playing a 2 ?

In that hand I don't see how you can fold, you made the right call and just didn't get lucky.  With over 11k in chips and only costing 860 to call, it's a call. 

If you have a decent chip stack and a short stack calls, it's a value call to try and knock them out - certainly at least once or twice if it's not going to damage you too much.   The short stacks are likely to be playing anything to try and make the money.

I was the short stack, I only had 1600 chippies,  and I folded before the flop, because die182 was bulling, and I didn't think I had a strong enough hand to play with.  Because it would have been taking to te showdown, and because he was pllaying with everything, I thought it was the right decision to fold.

oops, sorry, I misread and thought you had the 11k :)

Harrington says that you should use the first in.  Basically, if you cant get your chips in first, fold.  If you are that short stacked and only a couple of times around the board left in you, you need to be getting in first before any limpers or raisers.   Not necessarily Ace Rag, but getting in first is key.  With 1600 in chips, putting in first will stand a good chance of taking the blinds.

And like SupaMonkey says, if two people are in the pot already, leave them too it unless you have a premium starting hand.

To be fair, tank did teach me to do that, ie not to play a hand that has already been entered.  But with a guy like die162 beside me, I never really had that chance, because he was in on every single hand, he was never folding which was quite annoying. 

Maybe I should try that strategy!!

I may out more hands on this thread, so its easier to see where I'm going wrong

if there is a guy that's in every hand it's not easy especially if you are short stacked. This is a reason why it's importent to get in first and get all in too.  Don't leave any chance for a reraise, get in and get out.  The only goal is to pick up the blinds really.  If you get a caller, then obviously you're hoping to double up.

I'd certainly take Tanks advise :)

Go for it, see how you get on.  Just think, all the crappy hands you get, well everyone else gets them too, so you have to make moves :)

Thanks very much for the advice, I shall put it into practice, and I shall update with the results lol.

I guess everyone had to start somewhere.  tank as been teaching me for like 2 years, maybe its just taking effect now lol.  He has really good advice, but sometimes he forgets that hes talking to me, because he goes into the whole 'outs' thing, and gives me stats.  I'd just love to know what the hay he's talking about!

but I'm sure that it will all fall into place now that I've got you lot helping me, and pointing out my wrong moves.

constructive criticism is always welcome!!

x x x

Tigscoco,

This is a good thread to read

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=11864.0

Thanks I had a wee read of that, and it has helped me a bit, its nice to know its not just me thats having teat problem.  It is really difficult to play someone whos leaving it to you to make the dicision. Which ofcourse is a good way to play.  But you just have to have the chippies to do it

Thanks for the advice everyone, I put it into play, and I WON!  heres the heads up.  I played aggressive and it seemed to work

(200/400)

Seat 6: drdurt13 (4760 in chips)
Seat 7: tigscoco (8740 in chips)

tigscoco: posts small blind 200
drdurt13: posts big blind 400

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to tigscoco [2s Kc]
tigscoco: raises 8315 to 8715 and is all-in
drdurt13: calls 4335 and is all-in

*** FLOP *** [ Ahrt 4s 9h]

*** TURN *** [Ahrt 4s 9h] [Ad]

*** RIVER *** [Ahrt 4s 9h Ad] [2h]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

drdurt13: shows [Jc Qh] (a pair of Aces)
tigscoco: shows [2s Kc] (two pair, Aces and Deuces)

tigscoco collected 9520 from pot


So aggression works!!!!!
Thanks guys

x x x

Congratulations.

Remember, Q 6 is the average hand heads up.

Not to be too pedantic, but I thought it was Q7?

Lol, now I'm confused

Is that the hand you should be playing all the time?

Heads up you can raise or limp on the button with pretty much anything (dependant on opponent and other situational factors) but don't go calling raises with hands like Q7.

so whats the Q7 ting about then?

It's the about the average hand dealt to a player.

But the information is meaningless as it assumes your all-in preflop which unless your on a suicide mission does not happen very often with Q7....

Oh is this common knowledge??

I'm a bit confused sorry, is this the average and dealt throught the game or just head up?

I've played quite afew today, and I've come 4th in most, but I have managed to apply all this new info and won a couple too. 

Its when it comes to this average hand thing and such like, that confuses me.  Because I don't know what hands should be getting played at different times in the game.

Generally what I do, is play tight, with only the best hands at the start.  Letting everyone else knock each other out.   But when I am either down in chips or it gets to the 4th hand or so, thats when I start loosing up a bit.  playing hands like lower pairs, or things like J 10. 

Yet it only works when your getting the cards. 

I'm totally of the opinion that some of poker is down to luck.  thetank would disagree with that one!

J-10 is overrated. Forget your kicker when you are short handed.

In the short term luck is a major factor if not the major factor.Iin the longer term skilled players win and unskilled lose.

Forget the Q7 thing it has no relevance.

If your very shortstacked and no-one has entered the pot then pushing with hands like J,10 is perfectably acceptable.

I'm going to need to get some practice in before the BB3, can't show myself up infront of yal, how bad would that be.

I'll bring me lucky charms....in other words have afew before I get there lol

Don't worry about it - if 100 of us turn up then 99 of us will embarrass ourselves as there can only be one winner!!

And he will embarrass himself by dropping the trophy............... :D

 or she! :redcard:

Apologies - my remark was made at the expense of 10JQKA, the winner of the last blonde bash rather than a sexist attempt to predict the winner of the next blonde bash..........

After all we all know that the next blonde bash will be won by a primate ;)