blonde poker forum

I'm interested in your thoughts please


Latter stages of the first day of the Luton 500...blinds are now meaningful, lots of players around 20xBB

A player raises, flat called by SB

Flop J 6 5 all spades

SB bets out

Raisers dwells (it turns out he has As Jc, and has a genuine decision to make, in all likelihood for most of his chips by the end of the hand)

It's been about two minutes, the raiser clearly is umming and ahhing. No other player on the table has said a word when the young dealer (from Walsall) says

 "you have one minute to act"

The player asks which of his competitors has put him on the clock to be told

 "no one, I am putting you on the clock, we give you two minutes at Walsall, its a standard rule"

The player (not me) protests that this is not a standard rule as it is not somethng he sees at his local Grosvenor casino, and calls the supervisor (from the Vic usually), who backs the dealer

Next round with another dealer (from Luton) another player is in the midst of a dwell. No player calls for the clock, the dealer says nothing and (because I am watching intently) I time the dwell before passing at five and a half minutes

Surely there is something wrong here? Not only do we need a consistent set of rules to apply across casinos (another example no speech play at Luton, allowed in the other Grosvenors) especially across the Grosvenor estate, but we need dealers in the same competition to show consistency?

I do not agree that 2 minutes before the dealer calls for the clock is a standard rule. I disliked it happening to this player and a lot of us were confused when not twenty minutes later a 5 minute plus dwell passed with no thought from the dealer whatsoever!!

I had exactly the same thing during the last festival at Luton, Carlo Citrone was on my table and, as you might imagine, we had already had several lenghty dwells, no one called yor the clock and nothing was said, then I got a hand where I needed some time to make a dicision, after about 30 seconds the dealer said "One minute" "Whoa" I said, "Who called for the clock?" "I did" replied the dealer. I wasnt very happy about this and called for a ruling, the supervisor said the dealer couldnt put the clock on me unless a player requested it. the next week at Walsall, a similar thing happend, same ruling, Then a few weeks later, again at Walsall, same thing, different ruling, this time the dealer was allowed to put me on the clock

This all seems to leave too much room for favouritism by the dealer.

I thought it had to be a player who requested "the clock", it certainly should be IMO.

What happened to those TDA rules that some cardroom supervisors have adopted ?

 ???

Heres where the controversy begins

To call for a clock depends on the card room you're in. A dealer cannot call for a clock although in certain establishments they do this which in my eyes is out of order.

The only people who should be able to call for a clock are the people in the hand and the TD

Rules and regulations really need to be ironed out in the UK before it gets even more silly

In Nottingham they told me you are automaticly on the clock and everyone has 2 minutes to make a decision

That's a new one on me Red-dog, but I've only played a few times there this year.

I've never had the clock called on me at Notts., that I can remember.

I've been called just about everything else though !

 ::)

Grosvenors Standard rules state that "adequate thinking time" is allowed per hand. There is absolutley no mention of 2 minutes anywhere. I believe it used be stated before in an old set of rules tho. Dealers very rarely ask for the clock and they shouldnt be able to unless they are of a certain standard and are able to take into account the circumstances of the hand ie ammount of runners left etc. This is usually down to the supervisor tho. I know the rule did apply at walsall unless they gone to 2 minutes since i left

Let's be honest here. There's a cloud over most of the rules.

For instance, on my table, the dealer turned over a player's cards after he had called and mucked. The player claimed that as he was the caller of a non-all-in river bet, he shouldn't have to show. The dealer disagreed. I have no idea what the ruling should be. I think all cards are shown in Notts rather than mucked to avoid chip passing. Very confusing.  ???

But this is merely one of many scenarios which cause controversy and disillusionment.

 :-\

In a showdown all cards are to be shown, i thought this was standard everywhere now?

at walsall, a player is allowed adequate thinking time, then a clock will be placed on a player for 2 mins. its the dealers job to control the table and pace of the game.

Who decides what is adiquate thiking time, how do we know it will be the same for everyone, and who decides when the two minutes starts?

Well we need to start from "there IS no standard set of rules right now". No point blaming the dealers OR the TD, if they aint got a standard rule book, then they are on a hiding to nothing, and conflicting rulings are a given.

The best possible answer to the specific query, of course, is "just use your common sense", applied to ALL of us, players & officials.

But this is Poker, so fat chance of THAT......

So, at Walsall, is it down to the dealers, the other players or the supervisor?

In other words, whose common sense are we relying on?

All of them. As I said, fat chance....!

Maybe my prob is that I am too laid back about what I consider to be matters of no great import, and others see as important enough to argue about.

i've seen & done more than enough arguing during a lifetime in (happy) harness, and playing poker - which is a GAME - is my reward for working all those hours in real life, so I refuse to argue about it. So it all kinda washes over me now. I quit arguing a long time ago, & never have done in poker. 

As I said, maybe that's my problem!

Cobblers, your argueing with me now

Dosn't mean its very important though, just chewing the fat

I'm not arguing, I just told you that.