blonde poker forum

 
 why does this guy feel the need to call pre flop raises with suited connectors out of position.

 after the raise i put him on a draw, maybe (  9d, Td ,  Tc, Jc ) did not put him on what he had. i felt he didnt have the set so i pushed. he had plenty of chips already so why call this bet out of position ?  :dontask:

 ** Game ID 533212828 starting - 2006-07-03 18:38:48

** $200 Added High Stack Freezeout:Table 7 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (30.00|60.00 No Limit - MTT) Real Money



- BigTomatoes sitting in seat 1 with $7535.00

- largoflush sitting in seat 2 with $8745.00

- nickdraw sitting in seat 3 with $3570.00

- pengetjuv sitting in seat 4 with $1735.00

- stanford sitting in seat 5 with $11050.00

- ccfs25 sitting in seat 6 with $2090.00 [Dealer]

- Tipps sitting in seat 7 with $3405.00

- pepsimc76 sitting in seat 8 with $9555.00

- Arod80 sitting in seat 9 with $3890.00



Tipps posted the small blind - $15.00

pepsimc76 posted the big blind - $30.00



** Dealing card to BigTomatoes:  Ts,  Th

Arod80 called - $30.00

BigTomatoes raised - $150.00

largoflush folded

nickdraw folded

pengetjuv folded

stanford folded

ccfs25 folded

Tipps folded

pepsimc76 called - $150.00

Arod80 called - $150.00



** Dealing the flop:  7c,  6h,  9c

pepsimc76 checked

Arod80 checked

BigTomatoes bet - $450.00

pepsimc76 raised - $1350.00

Arod80 folded

BigTomatoes went all-in - $6935.00

pepsimc76 called - $7385.00

pepsimc76 shows:  Td,  8d



** Dealing the turn:  6s



** Dealing the river:  Aspades

pepsimc76 wins $15235.00 from the main pot



End of game 533212828



[-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------]





 i thought the whole point of a deep stack tourney was to play ' proper ' poker, so you have more chips and more play ie can wait for good cards, it is infuriating to come up aainst a guy who feels he has to play these marginal hands, then gets a miracle flop and busts you.   ;technophobe;

 

I don't like your reraise on the flop.

 yeah i didnt think he had the set i thought probably top pair or trying to get me off my hand, so i thought i could push back and he would have to give up a draw or top pair, theres no way i could put him on 8 10.

 what would u have done ?

Once he is check raising oop, I would most probably fold. Th Ts

when i play the deepstacked tournies i love to play cards like this to a small raise because you win pots like he did.

 there is no need for you to put your whole stack in with the blinds at 30/60. it is because of that, that he plays these kind of hands

 nah i disagree, i dont think there is any need whatsoever for this guy to call preflop.

Its called 'implied odds'. :)up

BT

You should think about what Nem and Dan are trying to tell you. Your opponent played his hand well, you played badly. I'm not trying to be rude but if you wanna play deep stack NL you need to work this stuff out.

 so basically i should have folded after the re raise?

 i understand this is a prime example of implied odds, whereas he has called my raise preflop with suited connectors knowing if he hits 2 pair, Trips, Straight or Flush he can win a lot of chips if i have an overpair.

 i just find this hard to accept because in the early stages of a mtt i always play tight and wouldnt have made this call.

 does that mean that i also should be making calls like this in the early stages of an mtt to try and break someone?

 after thinking a bit about it, i realise the bet i made on the flop should have been enough to take the pot so when im check raised oop i should have folded, at least til i get some information on the opponent.

 thanks for the advice.

I'd say it depends on the chip stacks.

In a deepstack event everyone has more chips so you can win more chips if you hit and lose a lower % of your stack by making the call.

The lower the stacks the greater your risk and lower your reward.

well, the main reason is that he can bust people that aren't able to fold overpairs... people keep harping on about "proper poker" and then cite high stakes poker as a fine example of proper poker in action, but every single one of those players would call a raise with 8/10 suited (and any other fine hands like that) when it constitutes about 1% of their stack

What there certainly isn't a need for, is for you to get your whole stack in on the flop. What do you think he has? if he has an overpair, you are in trouble, if he had an underpair, almost half of em flopped a set, and the other half aren't getting any more money in the pot.... so you are just hoping that he has what.. Ace nine? flush draw? Try putting him on a range of hands, rather then putting him on a range of hands that you can beat. IF anyone muffed this hand, it was you.. not him

You need to try and understand the concept of risk vs reward in poker.. he calls 150.. that is his initial risk. What is his reward? well, if he flops good.. he can win your stack.. which is 7500, so in effect, and this is what implied odds is.. he is risking 150 to win 7500.. thats 50/1 odds for the small investment preflop. Pretty damn good

Now, implied odds aren't really that simple, because people always over-estimate the liklihood of getting someones stack when they hit their hand..and are likely to lose quite a bit if they make a second best hand, or when they misplay a draw post-flop, but when its such a small % of his stack, it would be a crime not to call with a hand that has as much potential as 8/10.. especially against someone that thinks deep stack tournies are designed for you to wait for big hands. That gives him extra reason to call with a very wide range of hands. Hell, I think its correct to call with close to any 2 cards that are 2-3 gapped, suited or not.. against people who think like that

You also have to consider tertiary benefits of playing a wide range of hands. Lets say people follow your philosophy of thinking that deep stack tourneys are meant to be tourneys where you sit and wait for AA or other big hands.. what do you think will happen when you patiently wait for two hours, get AA.. and then raise. How likely are you to get a lot of action? not very (***).... so you have to balance your strategy and play other hands in order to not make yourself so exploitable if you are only playing big pairs.


*** you will get a certain amont of action preflop, but thats going to be from alert thinking players that are calling with a wide range of hands preflop, hoping to flop a hand to bust you post-flop. What i really mean is, you wont get a lot of action post-flop unless you are in a hell of a lot of trouble



I ust saw another post from you:


you should always be calling with potential hands, if you have reason to believe your opponent has a big hand, and isn't likely to fold it post-flop, which is the likely read your villain had of you. However, you should always tread and play with caution, as potential hands are easy to misplay postflop.. ie overvaluing draws, getting married to top pair, so if you consider yourself someone who wont get married to hands, then you should be calling with many hands. If you do get married to hands, you should probably just stick to trying to call with small pairs hoping to flop a set

Are you Doyle Brunson in disguise?


I love reading your "hand analysis" posts

 me or totalise?

 i realise it was a bad mistake to push on the flop, i now know in this situation i should fold.

 and i dont '' sit for 2 hrs and wait on AA '' i have a wide range of hands i like to play aggressively.

 plus suited connectors etc. but depending on position, chip stacks and other factors.

 thats why initially i didnt understand the call with guy being out of position, but now i understand why he made the initial call under the circumstances.

 and from now on i need to be able to let go of a hand such as an over pair etc.

 thanks for the opinions, sometimes you need to be brutally honest with yourself to improve as a player i guess.

rotflmfao rotflmfao

Hit the nail on the head mate.

I would jump on you here and say you do not understand what you are doing if u think having 300 bb stacks means you only play good hands. However it looks like i have been beaten too it.

Like Totalise says, i am calling with pretty much anything that can make a str8 if i think you get married to 1 pair post flop.

 well we were only in level 2 and id only came into a couple of hands ( AQ, 46s and 79s i think.  )

 so i cant see how anybody had a read on me.

 how could u know i ' get married to an overpair ' if wed only played at the same table for 15 minutes?

Because its the norm online as people are used to playing with just 2000 chips rather than 8000.

Say BT flopped a set and gets check raised. What do you do then?

As in he had 99? or a completly diffrent flop?

Yes, same flop.

I would probably flat call as a trap! I wouldnt put him on the FD or Str8 draw, unless he is pretty loose aggresive, on the turn when he leads i would commit myself and get busted out of the comp :D

But i dont see what that has to do with this though as he NEVER made his set on this flop therefore the hand would have been played different and there would be no thread as its one of those things!!