blonde poker forum

It was a bloody £2 buy in !!!!!

played some big tourneys lately and went out in sore circumstances....

and i join a £2 MTT whilst waiting for the £2000 Gtd and the £4000 Gtd to start and i end up winning it!

166 runners and £322 in the pot means i won £96.60

all my hands held up, and i won 80% of my races....why o' why does this happen in the small MTT, when the standard in both are the same?

From little acorns giant oak trees grow.

Patience young father, for it is a virtue that will bring great riches

(though no doubt will soon vanish on pampers ;))

they all count mate, keep plugging away, no doubt you will win another biggie soon.

look at it this way .. you have just earned 3 free entries into the 10k gtd on crypto, and got some change ... SPIN IT UP !!!

as they say at Tesco ...'every little helps' - congrats on a win anyway.

all 4 reply are so very true.....cheers guys!

 as a wise dealer once says when i asked him for a small amount of substance.

 '' if there werent bricks , there wouldnt be buildings ''

  ;goodvevil;

you mean a 'wise POKER dealer" i take it?

Don't worry, the good hands dont hold up that often usually in the low limit tourneys. Had my share of outdraws tonight.

i find the opposite, my good hands always hold up in low games such as this thread and get fekked in the big ones, such as just there, i play great and make the money only to go out in 11th when my AK goeas all in on a AA7 flop i get called by A2, and a 2 hits the river!!!!

and i collect the minimum £28 cash (the buy in was £25 + £2) SO I MADE £1 PROFIT FOR 3 HOURS WORK!!!!!! Grrrrrrrr

it pisses me off so much that i get so mad and hate playing the game!

If it's working for you maybe stick to the low limits for a while, build up the bank balance.
If the choice is there may as well play in the games that are profitable.

but its not profitable, look at above post - £1 profit - not good enough

I think he meant the £2 games - £94 profit much better!

oh right lol sorry, misread it.

i couldnt do that tho, i mean playing £2 games does not appeal to me, id rather not play at all. most of the time when i play the £2 games i just mess around for a laugh. I usually just wait till i get delt 2 3 off or 5 3 off and push all in, hoping to get called and suck out on some one just so i can laugh, i couldnt never take these games seriously

I mean playing seriously for 3 hours just to make a final table to win between £10-£20 is not my idea of having fun! The only way you can turn a profit in these is to come in top 3 places.

i couldnt handle playing these boring levels all the time

A classic case of Short Bankroll Syndrome......



You dont have enough bankroll to be playing $20-$30 buy in mtt's on a regular basis but you feel as though you belong in these games rather than playing the smaller $2-$4 tournaments. You want to try and build a bankroll but dont have the patience to grind out constant good results at the $2-$4 level, you'd rather be chancing building your bankroll at the higher $20-$30 tournaments as this is where the decent prizes lie.

You play the higher buy in tournaments but you play under the added pressure (without you realizing) of knowing that you need to get a decent result quick otherwise your bankroll could be gone. This leads to any outdraws being magnified out of normal proportions as it results in the loss of a substantial percentage of your bankroll.



Because the outdraws are magnified out of normal proportion this leads to you becoming angrier quicker - your bankroll depends on a decent cash and quick and you find some clown calls your AK all in bet with A2 o/s and rivers the 2. This leads to you taking the wrong outlook towards the game to your next tournament and leads to you hating the game.

Its not easy rebuilding from scratch - trust me, i've been there (as i would guess most of the people on this forum have). You just need to go back to the three key foundations and start all over again. Take a break from the game - however long you feel necessary to get back your enthusiasm for the game and return with the vigour and zest to put yourself in a winning frame of mind. Then here comes the hard part, sticking to the application of the three key foundations:

Patience
Discipline
Good Bankroll Management

The three foundataions overlap slightly but you need to keep them all in check to avoid falling of the path and back into the unknown. You need to keep your discipline for both only playing in tournaments that your bankroll can afford and also for keeping your patience when things may not go your way. You say you have most of your good results whilst playing "live" poker, why do you think this is? If it is because you know you cannot allow your emotions to come to the surface during a tournament incase you give off any tells then why not try to apply this to your online play? Imagine you are sat at a table in cincins with the rest of the motley crew even when you are sat in the comfort of your own home.

Its hard to resist the temptation of playing tournaments of the level where you think you belong when your bankroll cannot afford it - again i know as i have been there myself. You have to treat poker like a business, we cant always walk straight into a job at the top level and the majority of the time we have to start a lot lower down and work our way up. However if we know that we are better than the people around us at this level then it wont be long before a promotion comes our way and we are climbing back up the ladder to higher levels.

Who knows how long this will take, 1 month - 6 months - 24 months, you will still need to get a little luck along the way but hopefully in time superior skill will prevail and the rise up will commence. Just try to enjoy playing as much as you can - at the end of the day it is only a game of cards, it isnt a matter of life or death and with your new arrival there are far more important things to be looking out after.

 ;goodluck;

i have to get back to this post asap mate, im just leaving the house and dont have time to read it all, but it looks good...hang with me mate..


ohhh and one other thing, i dont have a bank roll, i dont use one, i just play poker direct out my bank account!

No problem - i'll ask another question while you are out then. Why do you not play without a bankroll?

By playing poker directly out of your bank account the short term fluctuations of playing MTT's are magnified even more as you can see your results affecting your life on a daily basis, especially if there are more debits coming out of your account than credits going in.

By keeping a poker bankroll seperate from your day to day finances whilst sticking to the principle of only playing with money you can afford to lose (preferably all on the same site) it means that if you go through a bad patch during the week then it wont make looking at your bank account even more depressing. Hopefully this will give you more reason to keep a positive outlook to take with you to the tournament arena.

You could have been writing about me there Matt.  One thing I've got to learn to deal with is to stick to a level where I can take the losses.

My bankroll is zero.  I stick $30 or so in my account, and build it up playing $5-$10 SNGs (where I seem to be able to make a good profit).  Once I get to $100-$150, I decide to 'have a go' at a $20 rebuy MTT, get close to cashing, and then have another bash.  Before I know it, I'm back down to $30 - mess about on a few extended $5 STTs and deposit again. 

It suits me as I don't play for profit, I play for fun, and the way things are at the moment it's not costing me more than a few quid a month out of my wages which would otherwise be blown in one night out, plus I'm 'winning' enough to give me a shot at big money in the bigger buy in games (which I would withdraw and spend). 

I don't know if Dave is in a similar situation where bankroll isn't important, but perhaps so?

Hmm I think I've answered my own statement there - I guess I don't need to 'stick to a level where I can take the losses' unless I actually want to build a bankroll!

Great post Matt!

It hit home with me also, I am in the same situation as Dave (sort of) after having to clearout my online roll for a expensive move, it near enough crippled me poker wise. I have finally resigned myself to the fact that, for now, I can't play the games and levels I know well and love. This HAS taken the fun and enjoyment out of the game somewhat, and for too long a period of time I was doing the 'large win to get me back where I was' attitude. This last week, I have gone back to the lowly $10 MTT's, $20FO max, and although it's going to be a long slog, I will get it back eventually. If I want to play the large tourneys I HAVE to win a seat for them, and then play it as a FO (horrible, but at least I'm in it)

The strangest thing is I'm finally getting back into the money places again, these tourneys can be a minefield, and some of the players are truly shocking but at least I'm getting back up the top and if I do bust out, why hell, it's only a $10  :D

:)up

Yup - it all depends on what you want to take out of the game. Some people are happy to be recreational players, just playing the occasional game for fun or to meet up with friends for a social occasion. If this is the case then the application of patience, discipline and good bankroll management tend not to apply - provided you are having fun and enjoying it then you are acheiving your objective, any good results are a bonus!!

Once you start playing poker for profit (as i believe Dave is) then you need to learn to become more patient and disciplined otherwise chances are your bankroll will suffer in the long run. :(

It happened to me during feb and march 2005.

2004 went beyond all my wildest dreams, i went from playing $5 sng's and freerolls on pokerroom to playing all the biggest MTT's on pokerstars along with some of the big festivals including the EPT London festival at the Grosvenor in 2004. However i needed to take most of my bankroll out over xmas and new year 2005 and left myself hardly anything in my pokerstars account. Unfortunately i carried on playing all the bigger tournaments and within a couple of weeks i was virtually broke, i felt as though i was still playing good poker but the poker gods were conspiring against me and i was suffering horrendous outdraws one after the other.

Thankfully i had a good friend in poker to help me out as i hadn't heard of the blonde forum (didnt become a member til july 05) and after a while i realized that if i wanted to carry on playing i had to drop down to a level to suit my bankroll. No longer could i play $50 rebuys, $100 and $200 freezeouts - i had to go back to the $10 and $20 freezeouts with the occasional small rebuy. I took a few weeks out - reread a bit of the sklansky books i have and waited til i felt good about returning to the game. Gradually i built up my bankroll in the next few months until i could start playing the occasional $50 freezeout on top of my normal games and by May i was lucky enough to pick up a good result in a rebuy tournament. The next few weeks were unbelieveable, the monkey was off the monkeys back and after picking up one good result before i knew it 3 or 4 more followed culminating in winning a seat in the WSOP.

There have been times since then that i've needed to withdraw big chunks from my bankroll - and even now my bankroll on pokerstars stands at $0.00 to stop me playing online poker in the build up to the WSOP. The experience i took from last year have stood me in good stead and i know that when the time comes again after the WSOP that i should have no problems in rebuilding my bankroll. Yes sometimes its going to be a hard graft and it isnt going to be pretty or enjoyable at times but touch wood i should be back playing the level i believe i belong at. My plan of building up my bankroll to $60000 so i can take 12 months out of work to see if i can cut it in the world of professional poker is still my main objective in poker - it just might take a little longer than i first envisaged. (though the next two weeks in Vegas may change that!!  :D)

Poker is like life - you have to take your past experiences and use them to build towards a brighter future. Providing you can enjoy it the majority of the time then the trip will be worthwhile!! :)up

just a quick answer to matt, again i havent really got the time to get into this thread, but the reason i dont have a bankroll is that i cant build one.

when ever i try to i just go bust, the norm for me is to deposit around £100 into betfair at the start of the week, and play £10 MTT's with the occasional shot at the £25 (10K Gtd) but that only gives me about 4/5 attempts to cash

I usually lose that within the week and deposit another £100 and do the same.

it must roughly be working out about £500 per month going out on poker.

dont try to suggest i play STT's cos i detest them, i find them so so boring, if you play a £10 STT the most you can win is £25! that has no apeal to me whatso ever - MTT's are where the money is

Dave you have to  have patience to build a bankroll. Tried to tell you this manys a time!

Remember my comments after a few of you guys had your first decent lifts in CinCins?  I suggested you used it as a starting point to go on to bigger things.

MTTs are super streaky. If you want to build up from £100 you probably can't afford to play anything higher than fiver freezouts without risking going bust.

STT and LIMIT hold em are both good ways to build up a roll, especially when done wisely i.e. in conjunction with some bonus whoring.

Don't look at a single STT win as the be all and end all. As an example, last night I did a batch of 4 table $20 Stars SNG and made two firsts from 4 attempts, which equated to an earn rate of about $90 per/hour.

That's tax free, and a better hourly rate than I manage in my 'proper' job - and you know I've got a good job!

If you want to make it big without any long  term effort, you'd be as well forgetting about playing normal MTT and stick to satellites into big events, and see if you can 'do a Moneymaker'.

Unfortunately the odds on success are extremely low, and the likelihood is you are condemning yourself to years of frustration.

I'll never suggest trying to play them as i dont play them myself, nor do i play cash - i'm a MTT monkey :)

You'll be surprised how much pressure you put yourself under to cash in such a short space of time tournament wise. You'll put yourself under pressure without even realizing it. You will make folds in spots when you know you are probably infront when you know that the money finish is just around the corner, you will talk yourself out of making certain decisions that normally you would make 95% correctly the rest of the time.

Rather than keep depositing week in week out why not try taking some time out of the game but saving up the money instead then after 6-8 weeks you will have about £600-£800 saved up which you can deposit all in one go. Then you can play the £10 and £20 tournaments safe in the knowledge that you have got a good month of tournaments to have a shot at before your bankroll starts getting low again - you'll be surprised how a combination of both a break from the game and the lifting of pressure to constantly get results helps improve your outlook on the game and usually improves your ROI.

STT's pay great and if you find a level you are good at, no matter how low that level is, you can make loads from it.  A £10 stt will pay the winner £50 which for an hours work isn't too shabby.  Sure it's not the best ROI in poker, but it's mighty fine for playing a game for an hour.  Then you can play two tables at a time - £80 profit now is possible.

I'm stuck playing $6.50 sng's on Stars - it's not big cash but I finish in the money most of the time and have built up a fairly nice bankroll for me.  When I've made another $100-200 I'm going to have a decent run at the next level up.  (I tried the win one move up approach but it didn't work for me!). 

I don't expect to be a millionaire over night but I play a lot of poker which I love doing, my account is going up slowly and every now and then I have a bash at a $20 mtt or an EPT qualifier to see how I get on.

yes but to play STT's it means you have to win 1 in 4 just to break even, 1 in 3 to turn a profit, and for the past year imve not been able too.

Matt as far as leaving poker i dont think i could, the first think i think ablout as soon as i get any spare time, is what MTT is about to start on betfair, i couldn't live with out it for more than 2 days

Winning 1 in 3 is more achievable than getting the same cash in a mtt though.

Play 3 or 4 at once and it will keep you on your toes too :D

true and i aint winning in any of those situation!


i do and lose tham all lol

dont believe it! this is what im on about!

i just played the £1,500 Gtd on crypto!

build up a good stack to 16,000 and get KK, i raise, guy on 9,000 puts me all in...i call.

he has 9 10 and hits a straight!

next hand i get AK, get it all in preflop against A7......board comes K 3 4 7 7!

went out in 25th spot with top 20 getting in the money!

OH MY GOD!

I think you need to start off by playing winning poker before worrying about bankroll management.

If your going to spend so much time playing then it makes sense to keep records. This may not seem like fun to you, and it can be hard after a losing session but it will help you to learn which games get you the best results.

Also, if you find that you are losing when playing 3 or 4, cut back to 2 games at once.  I have poor results when I bash 4 out in one go, cut back to 2 and it's much better.

Also, not sure if you have a Stars account or not, but the 18/45 man sng's are just as weak as the once table games - nicer payout - same old game.

only problem with this is, what if i discover playing MTT's doesnt win me anything? im as well chucking it, cos they are the only tourney i really enjoy playing

If it's the multis you enjoy then play the multis, your more likely to be successful at something you enjoy.

Look at your game, there is always room for improvement. Do some reading and try to study your game objectively. Being honest with yourself is the biggest favour you can do yourself as a poker player.

 

Use the stt's to pay for the mtt's.

I love the mtt's but I don't often finish high enough in the money to justify spending hours playing them exclusively so I use the stt's to build the bankroll on a small ongoing basis, then use this to fund my mtt habit hoping for the big win one day.

logical...good post

Yep meant the #2 level.

Just read through all the posts again and it seems (and I apologise if this is way off the mark) that you only find enjoyment going for that 'big win'. Your post describes how pissed off you are at getting outdraws and doing your bankroll every week. Maybe winning money, rather than losing it is the root cause of your discontent.
If this is the case than it much better to 'only' win 10-20 pound in a small buyin MTT then lose 10-25 pound in a bigger buyin.

As others have already repeated here, your buyin in relation to your bankroll is causing the problem. I can only guess that you will either stay unhappy losing money, or be bored winning money in the small buy ins.

As also previously stated, you need to keep records. Even if you do have a big win you will prob still be behind due to reloading your account every week.

Sorry this all sounds so negative, just trying to pick out points from the situation as i see it.

you are very true, poker is all about the big win that i want to hit one day and not about the slow grinding out of £5 or £10 here and there.

Im really here to hit that big on.....one day!

That statement couldnt be more false.

for most players but you have quoted and missed bits out, it should really read "you are very true, poker is all about the big win that i want to hit one day

you see, its not for everyone, but it is for me

ah ok my bad. Shouldnt post just after i wake up!

Wake up, dont tell me after all your ranting and raving about Tribecca you missed the tourney of the week....IFM winning tonights $5K Gtd!

see main board for details

I dont really play that many freezeouts, they are pretty poor value on the whole, the blue sq 100 and the tribecca $200 $8k are the only ones i like on there.

And yeah is ee the mug got lucky :D

Ok, good luck with the hunting for the big win, keep us informed of how it goes

unless you see me on the big screen...youll no i havent hit it yet lol