blonde poker forum

AQ offsuit in the BB.

Blinds are 30 60.

Stack size is 2k.

UTG limps off 2k stack. Button limps off 1.1k stack. Small blind completes.

Which of these options do you like and why?

a) Check.

b) Raise to 200 or thereabouts.

c) Raise to 360-400.

d) Raise to 540-600.

e) Push.

f) Anything else.

Check, and then fold when I inevitably miss the flop.

f)

Care to enlighten us ? :)

heh, I just lost a lot of $$$$ and pedantry took over. Sorry

I dunno what the answer is.. a lot of it depends on info that isn't included, like buyin, tourney type (speed/normal/rebuy) what time the tourney started, stuff like that. I know this also seems quite pedantic, but its details that are important (at least to me)

What I also would want to know is how the button got down to 1100... as that plays an impact on the decision

Absent any of this, Id go for something between b and c. B seems too small, c seems too big. You are likely to have the best hand, so get some chips in whilst the going is good.

I have grown to like AQ as much as AK in spots like this, as its unlikely your Ace is behind if the flop is Ace high (assuming you are called, as people in general dont limp call AK) and if its Q high you tend to get action from people who love to put you on AK, whereas the same people wont give you action if the flop is K high....and if it is K high, you can just pretend to have AK and the aforementioned will gladly fold (quite often)

Sklanksy tells us not to raise with hands that hate a re-raise, and in theory I adhere to that concept, but early on in tournies (especially online) people dont play well, they throw money away, the first couple of levels are where chips can be accumulated, and people play terribly in raised pots, so taking the lead, building the pot, and giving them a chance to play as bad as they do, seems preferable.

The obvious counter to this is that if people play so bad, they will give you chips even if you check and the flop hits you. True enough, but 4 ways they can hit the flop between them quite hard, and AQ is kinda hard to fold, so reverse implied odds are a scary enough factor here to warrant a raise.

I dont think checking is wrong, it just doesn't fit with my gung-ho approach to early tournament strategy

One more thing, you will (almost certainly) be OOP in the hand, but thats ok.. you get to fire the first barrel into the pot post flop, and if they call that, you are done with the hand anyways. People generally dont exploit positional advantage as well as they should, so if you miss, you bet, and they call.. its almost certain you are behind

That, JungleCat, is why I like between b) and c)


good post, I'll be interested to read some other well thought out replies to this.. as its a situation that can be played in a variety of ways

You're right about other bits of info missing.

Levels are 12 minutes, it's early on in the 2nd level.

Reads are none as I'd recently moved to this table so unaware of how the button lost their chips.

It was a 25$ buyin freezeout with 114 runners on tribeca.

It's interesting you asked what time the tournament started. It started at 2 am.

Unlucky about your $s. Hope you didn't have a tuff fish style rant afterwards.



Not to pre-empt other responses because I'm interested to see how differnt people approach this kind of hand but i made it 360 to go. 

It's a slilght overbet of the pot as I felt like I would be ok picking up the blinds and limpers given that as you say I'll most likely be OOP and will be firing shells semi blind on the flop if i miss which I don't like doing loads (firing shells blind that is, not missing, though i don't like missing the flop much either!)

I dont know really how important the time is on predominantly UK sites, but my suspicion is that the quality of play is probably worse as you have the late night stragglers just having a bit of a bingo session before bedtime. With it becoming more popular in the US, its probably not too much of a concern. Always good to include it in discussion

As for the rant, what I saw tonight is probably "the god-damndest thing I ever saw" and "everyobdy just wanted to call me like crazy when I dont have anything" It really was horrible, and not your usual "bad beat" horrible.. just huge draws missing and a myriad of second best hands getting smashed by the nuts. In terms of badbeats, I probably wasnt unlucky once!!  I need a new ipod and a new keyboard now.

Anyways, enough of the thread highjack.. on with the show

49p

you owe me 50p for false accusations

Thats why its only 49 :D

There are times when I would raise to maybe 200 or so with a hand like this; perhaps in Blue Square League games where my raises get respected a little better than in 'Open Water' tournaments.

The problem as I see it is that you're never going to chase everybody out of the hand unless you make a really big raise, something of the order of 300 or more, and then you're taking your chances that someone won't call with some kind of small-ish pocket pair, who might therefore also not believe you if low cards flop.

Unless it's the small blind who calls, you're going to be out of position, and if you miss your ace or queen and have to fire the next shell 'in the dark', you're taking a risk that you won't haemorrhage quite a few chips with a continuation bet.

A big raise here is a raise that doesn't want a call; you're essentially trying to steal the limps without a fight. But the bigger the raise, the harder it is to continue the bet on the flop without committing yourself to the pot.

Worst case scenario, you raise to 300, the UTG and button (despite the raise being almost a third of his stack) both flat call, but the small blind gets out of the way. The flop brings neither ace nor queen. Now you have 1700 and the pot is 960...  do you continue the bet?

I like the raise a little better in a deeper-stacked comp, or if I know the table is tight; this is a Tribeca freezeout scenario however and we all know how loose and shallow they normally play :D

I like to catch people early on in tournies, limp or min raise and try to hit flops hard.
I'm not a fan of biggish raises early on as (this has been pointed out already) you can easily find yourself sticking more chips than you may like in a bluff/semi bluff on the flop.
So for me a min raise and a full pot stab at it post flop, this i find is a good strategy as players will fold weak holdings early on due to the fact that a pot sized bet will be a fair percentage of their chips at this stage.

raise to about 300 and if you miss fold after a lenghty dwell

Raise to 300, bet half the pot on the flop, fold to a re-raise...

It's just occurred to be that I really hate AQ, I never feel really secure with it, especially if an ace hits. If it's queen high that's the best I can hope for because then you're really only worried about KK or a set; but A-hi if I get too much action, I have A-K plus every 2-pair aces up scenario to worry about as well... urrrrghhh

Still play it loads though.  8)

I would check in the big blind in this situation. The standard raise would at least yield one caller, and then you have to play out of position which is never desirable. So instead you could end up raising too much (like you did) and still get called, but now there has been a big pot created for no paritcular reason and you still have AQ out of position, again not a favourable situation. say u make the overraise and dont get called u pick up a total of 180 chips which is completely inconsequential at this point and you don get to see a flop with a good hand in AQ.

Id be taking a flop and playing from there, if you hit the flop you know have a deceptively strong hand which a lot of players wouldnt even give you credit for.

I totally agree with this, the amount of chips you'll gain versus the amount you're risking is not worthwhile.

[Edit] Also, there is a problem in that the UTG player will be next to act, now assuming we don't know anything about him, any re-raise from him makes you more than likely to dump your hand here, and even if he hasn't limped with a monster, he's still limped UTG which means you have to give him credit for something, and even if he's a complete tool, he may very well get rather attached to his J9suited or whatever and call anyway, (I find a lot players do). The point is that if he calls then that may drag in the other two players and you've created a huge pot whilst being OOP.

I make it 300 to go, if you get 1 caller then take a 1/2 pot bet stab at the flop, if you get more than 1 then you will have to re-asses on the flop.

Pab i like the check play but for me there have to be more limper's than 2 to make me worried about it.

Yes, I knew there was another reason I liked this play.

Not that I ever hit flops though. :(

good post. I agree with this and this is often how I would play it.


Not sure I'm a big fan of this. If you min raise, they will almost certainly all call your bet. Pot size now 480. so you bet 480 on the flop into 2 opponents oop when you've missed. I think this is too much of your chip stack to throw at two opponents with position with no information on their hands.

I agree with Pab . i would check . The deception gained from the check and the fact that it so early in the touney  means I am happy to take a flop here. I would even check QQ and JJ this early on .