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Title: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 23, 2005, 12:04:24 AM As this is a poker Forum can you, the poker player, choose what percentage you would like to see go to first place. 300 votes and I will change my structure accordingly. 1 vote per player ONLY PLAYERS PLEASE No casino staff!!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 23, 2005, 12:06:50 AM I think there could be a clear winner on this 1.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 23, 2005, 12:10:06 AM http://www.comeonboro.com/blondepoker/forum/index.php?topic=530.0
This link may be of interest to you. Nightfly manages the notts cardroom. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 23, 2005, 12:27:02 AM Fascinating Thread!! Me being just a simpleton, I had a discussion with 3 top players, 1 said he wanted all of the prize money another said 50% and the other wanted a more flatter structure completely. I left them arguing between themselves as a deal had just been done LOL.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: AdamM on August 23, 2005, 01:22:42 PM come on guys, get voting. this is important.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Junior Senior on August 23, 2005, 01:23:50 PM looks like a clear winner is starting to emerge out of the blocks - that got my vote anyway!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: tikay on August 23, 2005, 01:45:48 PM Yes, but will the Card Room Managers listen?
With due repect to them, many of whom I count as friends, when it comes to this issue, they seem to "freeze". They KNOW what we want, but for some reason, seem frightened to do it. It's not difficult, it pleases the players, and it costs the Casinos NOTHING...... There MUST be a hidden agenda here, some resaon why they don't want to do it. Carmel did it at Luton. She said "what's the problem?". We told her. She went away & came back 15 minutes later with 3 alternative options. We said "that one please" & she said "OK, done"..... A HUGE up to Carmel. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 23, 2005, 02:11:42 PM on sunday night they paid the top 10 in a 45 runner event i thought this was daft
top 5 would of been about right but this is where it got stupid 10th £80 9th £100 8th £120 7th £140 6th £160 5th £200 4th £325 3rd £440 2nd £880 1st £1625 (top 4 places are approx i didnt pay much attension to them as i knew it would be chopped or chip count before then) i think it should of paid 5 spots with 1221 30% 1017.50 25 % 814 20% 610.50 15% 407 10% this would of allowed people to play poker at the end and stop the rewarding players for just making a final table if i play in a £25 rebuy comp i aint intrested in getting £100 or £140 that sometimes isnt paying for my rebuys but once you get in the money the money should have less of a jump so that people are more willing to play for a 100 player event that pays top 10 i would make it 25% 20% 15% 11% 8% 6% 5% 4% 3% 2% Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 23, 2005, 02:28:59 PM come on guys, get voting. this is important. I think Red Dog's Twin needs to take priority here, Adam. ;) Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Royal Flush on August 23, 2005, 02:30:43 PM for a 100 player event that pays top 10 i would make it 25% 20% 15% 11% 8% 6% 5% 4% 3% 2% I think thats a tad too flat for most people's liking. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 23, 2005, 02:42:58 PM if you look at how the deals are dont you will find that top 3 would proberly work out that way it will also encourage more play
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: MrMoves on August 23, 2005, 02:50:35 PM For 100 runners I like 30%, 20% and 12% for the first three.
However, if I'm about to win I prefer 100% for first ;D Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: BlueWolf on August 23, 2005, 02:55:48 PM i like ironsides structure but i'm not allowed to vote lol
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: ifm on August 23, 2005, 03:56:52 PM on sunday night they paid the top 10 in a 45 runner event i thought this was daft top 5 would of been about right They pay 10 spots if the prize fund exceeds £1000 (obviously 5 if less) and 20 spots if there are over 120 runners (i think). I assumed it was gaming board rules ??? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 23, 2005, 03:59:37 PM on sunday night they paid the top 10 in a 45 runner event i thought this was daft top 5 would of been about right They pay 10 spots if the prize fund exceeds £1000 (obviously 5 if less) and 20 spots if there are over 120 runners (i think). I assumed it was gaming board rules ??? nope aberdeen has always had over £1k for 30-44 runners when i have been there and only ever pay top 3 as long as the payout structure is advertised in advance then the casino's can pay out how they like (as long as they pay out a total off 100% of the money) Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: ifm on August 23, 2005, 04:07:16 PM interesting............that explains why the broadway only paid top 5 in one of their comps.
Actually annoyed the hell out of me as i just scraped into the final to THEN discover i had to get in the top 5!! needless to say i didn't >:( Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: phoenix96 on August 23, 2005, 07:58:35 PM If you go Nottm Gala they have different pay-out structures depending on comp, The 10 pound re-buy game has first prize of 30% where other comps are 40%, nightfly has done a study into this and discovered that although 40% is advetised for winner they only takes home (or drop in casino) about 30% because of deals or chip counts.This suggests a flatter structure is required for all comps
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 23, 2005, 08:02:16 PM Amen!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: tikay on August 23, 2005, 09:49:42 PM So, Phoenix, Sir, Nice Man & Good Egg, why don't you change it.........??
It's FREE. It's EASY. Just do it, ffs. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Yogi-Bear on August 23, 2005, 10:14:40 PM whoops silly me voted. Sorry Dik
I sometimes just vote without reading Yogi Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 23, 2005, 10:19:30 PM The poll speaks for itself.
Many structures are 40 percent to the winner. The people of blonde have spoken and it is clear we, the players, see this as too much. Why not try a trial run? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: vleis20 on August 24, 2005, 01:01:43 AM nope aberdeen has always had over £1k for 30-44 runners when i have been there and only ever pay top 3
as long as the payout structure is advertised in advance then the casino's can pay out how they like (as long as they pay out a total off 100% of the money)[/font] Well you be surprised to know we tried that and the players still want to do the deal to change the adverised structure. I understand that it's not really the casino's money but what is the point of having a prize structure if every week the players ask to change it to suit the situation. You simply can't please everybody all of the time. What would happen if a was struck deal on one structure one week when there was only 5 players and the week after, the structure was changed to suit 7 players. If that was me, I'd be piissed off. Casino prize structures are the to ensure conformity. If most of the players could agree on a single or a range of prize structures to suit most comps (even the low stake games) it would make my job alot easier. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 01:10:41 AM Take a look at the polls. The majority favour 30% for 1st.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 01:16:50 AM I promise that I will ammend my prize money to the winning percentage once 300 people have voted, this shouldn't take too long it is on 2 forums!!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: londonpokergirl on August 24, 2005, 01:25:57 AM normal paystructure imho should be pay 10% of runners and between 30-40% to first depending on size of tourney :)
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: tikay on August 24, 2005, 01:28:13 AM NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo.
We have just finiished a three month tirade arguing against 40% going to the winner! 30%, give or take a few %, is what is needed to discourage deals. History, & public opinion, has proven that. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 01:30:14 AM NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo. We have just finiished a three month tirade arguing against 40% going to the winner! 30%, give or take a few %, is what is needed to discourage deals. History, & public opinion, has proven that. The poll speaks for itself, Tikay. As long as people keep voting, I'm sure we'll see dik give the 30 % a fair crack. Have faith. ;) Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: AdamM on August 24, 2005, 01:32:03 AM VOTE PLEASE
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: tikay on August 24, 2005, 01:43:11 AM We just got everyone in line, then we get someone saying "30% to 40%". Hush now Mel, hush......
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: londonpokergirl on August 24, 2005, 01:56:08 AM lol thats why i said depending on the size of tourney/pay out
just that in a £10 rebuy i think 40% is fine, but a £250 then 30% needs to be adjusted using common sense Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: tikay on August 24, 2005, 01:58:47 AM No, PLEASE don't start putting doubt in the Casino Managers minds. It's been hard enough to get them as far as we have.
The public opinion clearly says 30%, give or take a few %, to discourage deals. Please don't set us back 3 months....... Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Royal Flush on August 24, 2005, 02:10:29 AM ok so who voted 100%???
Look at stars as an example, the big tourney there hasnt been chopped for a few weeks now and thats massive amounts of money considering the outlay, why, the structure is good! Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 02:15:35 AM ok so who voted 100%??? Look at stars as an example, the big tourney there hasnt been chopped for a few weeks now and thats massive amounts of money considering the outlay, why, the structure is good! I recall foxy saying in a thread that he'd be happy with 100 %. Gotta admit, it would be intriguing. Would everyone just go for it like maniacs early on?? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 02:27:14 AM I played in a 'one prize' tourney it was the legue at walsall (for the car) guess what happened on the final table..
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 02:28:14 AM I remember this.
Needless to say, you walked home. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 02:31:08 AM I remember this. Needless to say, you walked home. What I meant was, THEY DID A DEAL!!!! Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 02:32:26 AM What was the deal precisely.
Which seat did u get? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 24, 2005, 02:33:53 AM He must have come last , looks like all he got was a windscreen wiper .... and he wears it proudly on his top lip ;D
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: AdamM on August 24, 2005, 02:34:16 AM boom boom
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 02:34:44 AM He must have come last , looks like all he got was a windscreen wiper .... and he wears it proudly on his top lip ;D hehe. Nice reply. :D :) ;D 8) Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 02:36:26 AM What was the deal precisely. Which seat did u get? I went out 7th, the last 4 took some money and the chipleader got the car I'm going off you Kev Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 02:37:40 AM You've withstood a hell of a mocking recently RED-DOG.
Good on ya. :) Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Royal Flush on August 24, 2005, 02:39:36 AM Gotta admit, it would be intriguing. Would everyone just go for it like maniacs early on?? Its called a super sat!! ;D Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 02:39:56 AM You've withstood a hell of a mocking recently RED-DOG. Good on ya. :) I have skin like a rino (and other bits too) Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 24, 2005, 02:40:54 AM I'm going off you Kev [/quote] I dont care ... Mrs Dog likes me :P Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 02:42:00 AM I'm going off you Kev I dont care ... Mrs Dog likes me :P [/quote] She's a bitch Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 24, 2005, 02:44:49 AM :o I think you best delete that, cos when she see's it , you might be off for a trip to the vets ...Neutering i think they call it ;)
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: womble on August 24, 2005, 02:25:05 PM I will repeat here the comments I have made on another forum.
I think it is generally accepted that our friends across the pond lead the way in structuring tournaments - after all they have far more practice. Why not just use the Tex Morgan payout structure, which I think was used at the World Series up until recently. For the record a 100 runner event would break down as follows: 1) 34.00% 2) 18.50% 3) 12.90% 4) 9.50% 5) 7.10% 6) 5.40% 7) 4.20% 8) 3.34% 9) 2.73% 10) 2.33% Also bear in mind the Morgan stucture provides a sliding scale dependant on the number of players. It is readily available and easy to use. It would at least provide us a benchmark from which to work and hopefully create a standard throughout Casino's. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: AdamM on August 24, 2005, 02:27:15 PM who's Tex Morgan?
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 02:28:06 PM And I will repeat my comment back. I personally love this structure!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: londonpokergirl on August 24, 2005, 03:08:50 PM well thats pretty much what i'd said in the other comments somewhere between 30-40% using common sense and pay 10% of runners DOH!!!
glad somebody is listening Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 03:11:26 PM Sigh
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 03:12:18 PM well thats pretty much what i'd said in the other comments somewhere between 30-40% using common sense and pay 10% of runners DOH!!! glad somebody is listening did someone say something? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 03:28:32 PM Ok there are 10 more options now I have 100 results in
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 24, 2005, 03:38:55 PM 30% is repeated
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 03:40:31 PM becuase people that have already voted 30% might infact want 31% so its a fresher version LOL
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 24, 2005, 03:41:50 PM but once you have voted, you cant vote again... and you have 40 votes, not 100... or am i missing something ?
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 03:43:54 PM Other forums LOL
How can I change this to 2 votes then? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 24, 2005, 03:47:43 PM Not sure, best ask Ironside, the thing is, i think you are complicating matters, the original poll was good, and the fact that you put the poll on other sites means that the same people could be voting on each site meaning the result is flawed ... im not being pedantic, just offering my view.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 03:49:04 PM No, that woudnt flaw the result
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: AdamM on August 24, 2005, 03:49:41 PM Thats just daft. we want 30%
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 03:50:49 PM I understand this. You are right but i can't delete it now aaaaaagggggghhhh. It looked prety certain that the vote was going 30% way, but I was curious as people were putting odd 30 % s up. I want to change immediately when I get the required 300 votes
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 03:53:40 PM Already a 35% vote...thats what i mean?
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 03:54:27 PM Why do you need 300 votes, if there were only 10 voters and 7 of them want the same thing, it is still a majority
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 03:55:52 PM There are some people that would vote Hitler in again, but they are NOT IN THE MAJORITY
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 24, 2005, 03:59:29 PM now theres someone we missed in the lookalike poll :)
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 03:59:47 PM you wont get 300 votes no chance blonde has 1000 members and you will be lucky to get 10% of them to vote in fact some of that 1000 are spammers who are banned or have realised there is no point spamming or people wanting to ask 1 question then leave
or just have no intrest in the general disscusion they are member just to cheer on there dad or brother or husband in the live updates the other forum this poll is on is much smaller so between them i would say you lucky you have as many votes as you have you would proberly still be waiting for a result this time next year if you wait for 300 Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:06:05 PM Now you say LOL theres me thinking a 1000 players were on here (I dunno I only joined in the last fortnight. Recommend a decent number I should base this on?
Sensible plz Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:07:13 PM Ok time limit ... this will be in place for festival. So Its open till next Friday.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 04:08:43 PM Now you say LOL theres me thinking a 1000 players were on here (I dunno I only joined in the last fortnight. Recommend a decent number I should base this on? Sensible plz Yes, ffs, lol, base it on the MAJORITY Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 04:09:19 PM thats a better idea
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:10:30 PM 30% or the odds?
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 04:10:41 PM Now you say LOL theres me thinking a 1000 players were on here (I dunno I only joined in the last fortnight. make that a month doesnt time fly when your having fun Date Registered: July 28, 2005, 09:17:38 AM Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:12:38 PM Bloody hell ...that long! your right. Wonder why my missus was saying I spend more time on here rather than on her!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 04:15:13 PM Bloody hell ...that long! your right. Wonder why my missus was saying I spend more time on here rather than on her! keep it clean lol Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: jammer on August 24, 2005, 04:29:21 PM Why do you need 300 votes, if there were only 10 voters and 7 of them want the same thing, it is still a majority Statistical significance. If you want valid results from a poll you need as many votes as possible... and you can't change the poll halfway through voting! Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:32:10 PM I wasn't really changing the poll. indications were 30% majority with 40% second place So there must be a middle ground?
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: redsimon on August 24, 2005, 04:33:17 PM who's Tex Morgan? He invented Tex's TEARS which was/is a software programme which devises prize structures and ante levels/ clock etc for touraments. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 04:37:34 PM I wasn't really changing the poll. indications were 30% majority with 40% second place So there must be a middle ground? 30% has a clear, vast majority, there can only be one majority Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:39:06 PM But 34% didn't get a chance to speak!!! If you see what I mean.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 04:42:36 PM But 34% didn't get a chance to speak!!! If you see what I mean. No I dont see, you cant count people that didnt vote, and what makes you think they would be different from the majority of people that did I dont get it, The MAJORITY want 30%, end of, as far as I can see Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: ifm on August 24, 2005, 04:48:19 PM but you opened the vote for 30 to 40 afterwards anyway?
so even if folks wanted something else they couldn't change their mind anyway? you should have left it as it was or deleted it and started afresh, or even did another with just options of between 30 and 40, but then there would be too many polls and we don't want that again! Folks had a choice between 30 and 40 and the majority chose 30 so that has to stand? Ian btw i voted 40 lol, hit the wrong one ;D Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:54:20 PM Jesus its hard getting through to you guys...lol
All I am saying is that on the original poll I couldn't do 1%-99% so the choices were limited! I realise the majority have voted for 30% and some have voted for 40% What do you vote for if you think the 1st place % should be 34%. Red Dog I am not saying I wont do 30% If thats what people want I will do it. If someone thought that"tex Morgans %" was right did they vote for 30% or 40% Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: ifm on August 24, 2005, 04:55:06 PM hehehe, i just looked at the poll, then at who's online and saw someone was voting so looked back and i know what that person voted!!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 04:58:12 PM Well it was for 35% anyway by the looks so I rest my case for editing poll. :D
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 05:04:51 PM Im fed up of this poll now, it was simple, the players voted
Now it's becoming a farce I bet if you edit it again with a ' the winner gets his fingers chopped off, option, someone will vote for it Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: ifm on August 24, 2005, 05:05:35 PM you ain't much easier........... ;D
Lets take your example and i voted for 30% but wanted 35% really so rounded it down...........now my option has appeared but oops, i can't vote!! cuz i already did so now the extra options are pointless anyhow ??? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 24, 2005, 05:09:23 PM Other forums LOL How can I change this to 2 votes then? This getting silly!!!! Ok STOP for a moment. Anybody who voted for 30% please post what precise % you would like!! No response means you WANT 30% Exactly Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: ifm on August 24, 2005, 05:13:12 PM ok, change it to 2 votes then the peeps who voted for 40% will do so again and the peeps who wanted 35% but voted 30% cuz it was the only option then vote for that............now you have 2 votes for 40% against 1@30% and 1@35%. no contest 40% is the winner and it would be false anyway!!!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: AdamM on August 24, 2005, 05:24:59 PM no, I'm getting as frustrated as RD with this. the conversation has come up numerous times before. most of us want 30% for 1st. 33% or 36% of 32.25% looks crap on the posters. straight 30% 20% 15% 10% etc is what MOST players want
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 05:50:31 PM 30% 34% 58.5% whats the point of voting for first place when we dont know how many seats get paid and what the other % are
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 06:42:10 PM If anyone hasn't seen/read this link already, then I urge you to take a look.
Almost 100 voters on the poll too. 8) Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 06:44:00 PM 99% of statistics are made up on the spot
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 06:44:27 PM thats wrong its 89.7%
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 06:44:49 PM 99% of statistics are made up on the spot Did u make that up? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 24, 2005, 06:46:24 PM 99% of statistics are made up on the spot Did u make that up? Yes Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Ironside on August 24, 2005, 06:47:48 PM i didnt
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 24, 2005, 06:52:08 PM If anyone hasn't seen/read this link already, then I urge you to take a look. Almost 100 voters on the poll too. 8) hmm - maybe I should have pasted the link. http://www.comeonboro.com/blondepoker/forum/index.php?topic=530.0 Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: womble on August 24, 2005, 07:00:25 PM Figure its about time to throw a spanner in the works.
The poll has been prepared with incomplete information and is bound to provide a skewed result. The options available were limited ie do you want 30% or 40% and the baseline is restricted to a 100 runner comp. What payout do you propose for 70 runners or 140 or 190 or 250 etc.etc. My point in suggesting the use of a tried and tested formula (Tex's TEARS) is that you can have a spreadsheet which is ready made to cover most eventualities. It would appear to be fair the standard split on a 100 runner comp is not that far removed from what the 'majority' want. I have heard it argued that the Americans have a distinct advantage over the Brits since they are used to playing out comps to win, rather than dealing 5 ways. Since this structure is commonly used in the States, I can only presume that it facilitates playing out for the prizes. Why do we need to re-invent the wheel here, I cannot recall too many UK players bemoaning the payouts in American comps. The formula exists, somebody else has done the hard work, why can't we just adopt it. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Junior Senior on August 24, 2005, 09:03:27 PM here here Mr Womble sir. - with intelligence and reasoning like that you should post more often! - getting a bit tired of the unintelligable quips of Messers red-Dog, CK and ironside :D :)
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Sheriff Fatman on August 24, 2005, 10:35:12 PM Personally, I'm more interested in what happens at the bottom end of the structure than the top.
I'm sick of playing in live tournaments where half the people who reach the money get less than the buy-in back. Sheriff Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 25, 2005, 02:39:51 AM here here Mr Womble sir. - with intelligence and reasoning like that you should post more often! - getting a bit tired of the unintelligable quips of Messers red-Dog, CK and ironside :D :) Unintelligable only to the unintelligent Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Robert HM on August 25, 2005, 02:49:10 AM You what?
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 25, 2005, 02:49:47 AM I agree with Red... I think :-\
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Junior Senior on August 25, 2005, 11:23:48 AM Unintelligent! - i'll have you know i've got e-levels and everyfing! :P
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: vleis20 on August 26, 2005, 01:30:12 AM Figure its about time to throw a spanner in the works. The poll has been prepared with incomplete information and is bound to provide a skewed result. The options available were limited ie do you want 30% or 40% and the baseline is restricted to a 100 runner comp. What payout do you propose for 70 runners or 140 or 190 or 250 etc.etc. My point in suggesting the use of a tried and tested formula (Tex's TEARS) is that you can have a spreadsheet which is ready made to cover most eventualities. It would appear to be fair the standard split on a 100 runner comp is not that far removed from what the 'majority' want. I have heard it argued that the Americans have a distinct advantage over the Brits since they are used to playing out comps to win, rather than dealing 5 ways. Since this structure is commonly used in the States, I can only presume that it facilitates playing out for the prizes. Why do we need to re-invent the wheel here, I cannot recall too many UK players bemoaning the payouts in American comps. The formula exists, somebody else has done the hard work, why can't we just adopt it. But having after looking info at the Tex Morgan website, he will supply his software free of charge as long as the person who is buying it pays his representatives airfare and expenses to install and explain it. In a world of increasing competition it will be a brave cardroom supervisor/manager who suggests that to the big bosses. Maybe the new 'Cardroom Magic' software may herald a new era. Perhaps someone from Wallsall could comment? Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 28, 2005, 01:55:49 PM OK not many results in but I need to run it soon please give me a yah or nay on this
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Dewi_cool on August 28, 2005, 01:59:58 PM ok who said 100%
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 28, 2005, 02:05:15 PM Dunno but is that a yes or no?
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 28, 2005, 02:06:06 PM Yes, well done
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 28, 2005, 02:09:54 PM But if you start asking opinions, you'll be back where you started
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 28, 2005, 02:12:03 PM LOL I know! just seeking approval !!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dan on August 28, 2005, 05:16:46 PM YEP
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: tikay on August 29, 2005, 04:07:15 PM "JUST DO IT". Way to go Dik. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 30, 2005, 05:32:40 AM OK tried it out tonight! 61 runners £4000 prize 7 complaints pre tourny 3 after tourny AND TO CAP IT ALL IT GOT CHOPPED 5 WAYS!!!! WTF? Was this some form of initiation into the forum? Got a pig of a migraine! Oh well its done now suppose it will change back to 40% when the greeks start hounding the Big Wigs. But I kept my word and it will stay at this percentage for the near future at least!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: RED-DOG on August 30, 2005, 11:11:54 AM Well done dik
KUDOS Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 30, 2005, 11:47:28 AM 10 complaints out of 61 is a minority remember.
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 30, 2005, 02:24:32 PM LOL yeah I know, but 51 people never saw the ammendment ;D
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 31, 2005, 06:10:35 AM :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(Greeks got in there really quick! Boss got pissed off at the number of complaints. Did an impromptu poll of "our" players and 68 % said 40% should be top prize and a few said 50% and even a 70%. As nobody had complained in the first place looks like we will be going back to original structure! SORRY!!!! :'( :'( :'( Tried.....even if was for just the 1 night! BTW it got chopped up between top 5 again tonight!
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 31, 2005, 06:13:20 AM . But I kept my word and it will stay at this percentage for the near future at least! I shall eat my words!!!Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: Colchester Kev on August 31, 2005, 06:30:29 AM The more i read about this, the more obvious it seems ....
Most 20/30/50 pound comp players dont look at the big picture regarding pay out structures... they see a top prize, and think, wow that would be a good return on my investment... and the bigger the first prize, the bigger the financial carrot that is dangled before them... the fact that these comps are always ending in chops shows that regardless of the structure, deals are going to be done .. especially when you get the same players week in week out ... dont forget payout structures have been top heavy for so long now, and it will take a long time to educate people into seeing the benefits of a flatter structure. At the moment, all they see is (and i bet you heard this a few times last night dik9) "HEY, why is first prize lower than normal"...."why should third get that much" etc etc.. then they chop it anyway. I think the only way forward is to Implement the flatter structures for festivals (as in Luton) and then slowly but surely they will filter down to the bread and butter games. Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: dik9 on August 31, 2005, 08:15:24 AM That was exactly what I was thinking, thats why I wanted to trial it before the fest just to get a little feedback. Outcome amazed me, those people already in a few events said they would pull out if it remained the same, but the clincher came when a few people suggested to the boss that we were pushing people towards our opposition. Now the boss doesn't know a great deal about poker, but those immortal words of "well we will go somewhere else then" swayed a decision that was in the balance. To be fair to my boss, if I was in the same position i would probably make the same decision, with the limited knowledge of the facts put in front of me. He was over whelmed by negative comments from bigger house playing customers. IMO the people that complained were the people that could afford it in the first place and didn't need the extra 10%. The bread and butter poker players that play day in and out were mainly in the 30% zone. But from a non poker GM if he sees his big punters being upset in the card room then he will listen to them and over ride as he sees fit. All I can say is.....don't bite my head off....But if the roles were reversed and I wasn't interested in poker then I would say that I probably would listen to the poker player who plays house games. It is just ironic that the flatter the structure, the more chance the house has a chance to hit
Title: Re: Payout Structures Post by: snoopy1239 on August 31, 2005, 11:40:48 PM Nightfly found all this out in the link I pasted at the start of the thread.
I think it's a mere case of ignorance and, unfotunatley, there is nothing you can do except perhaps inform players of what Kev said and see if that changes anyone's view. |