blonde poker forum

Made some headway today with the Alternate rule. Well at least I thought I did. Until I was shot down by a very experienced player who announced to me(after I had made my proposal to the GB) the way it is actually done in Vegas. After listening to him I realised that what i had put forward was argued about blindly. Many questions were raised by my compliance director to which i had thought I had made a good arguement in every case. Then above mentioned player got involved and indicated that money was taken off their original buy in chips to represent the blinds they had missed! (and it works very well he stated) before my compliance director screwed up my proposal and said nice one you twat!  :oops:
Can someone please enlighten me on a reasonable way I can get round this problem filling in these few criteria:
1. All players must be on the premises at the start of the competition.
2. All players start of with the same amount of chips
3. All players must be in a random draw.
4.This can only be for freezeouts.
5. A player does not get an advantage or disadvantage over another.

Please post questions and i will try and give an arguement against it (playing the role of my compliance director) Once I cannot see a reasonable out, I will put forward another proposal.

Firstly, well done on trying to bring British casino poker regulations inline with the year  2005.
Lets start by explaining why the way its done in vegas is such a big no no, here..

What is the G boards major gripe,

excuse my ignorance if you have already explained this

I think you will find that the alternates are only allowed to enter within a certain time.
i.e during rebuy period or 1 st break.

As my recent L Vegas trip was my 1st to play poker, I am not really familiar with the procedure, but im sure  THE BLONDITES will really help out in this, because this could be a major milestone in British Poker.

I think you will find that it is the fact that said alternate doesnt receive as many chips for his money as the original starters. Which causes an advantage/disadvantage which is what the GB don't agree with. Same reason for not having double top ups etc. Perhaps if someone sat down with the gaming board and said this is why they don't get as many chips etc. then they may agree to it. A complete set of rules would need writing. Perhaps a players UNION???? COMITTEE????? should make their representations to the GB. Give them a little first hand taster of the GB. Like I have any.

Technically they are in a random draw. Ish. HEHEHE. They get first seat available. Who knows where that will be. I find that quite random. They will know they are alternates and whatever rules that are there for them would have to be stood by. It is probably a case of re-writing guidelines 3 slightly, because in its current format it doesnt accept them, unless you go to them with the idea and use the rule about other forms of competitions and games for written permission.

Yogi

If alternates were intorduced, would this mean that casino's would shorten the clocks?

No, it means more people will be able to play.
Its giving a chance to those on the present day reserve list, who usually are with out aseat once the tourny has started

dik9,
next time Frankie Knight is in your club, ask him on some pointers.
No one knows the american way of doing things more than him. He should be able to give you all the info on how the alternate system works.

But because more people play, doesn't this mean that the comp will be longer?

And if it isn't longer, won't the clocks decrease in time to compensate for the extra players?

No, this shouldn't happen as it would be within a certain time frame or up to a certain level.

I will ask Frankie ASAP, think he is at the Merrion at the mo. The player that told me about the blinds being taken away was Fari.

first off a random draw for alternates is not recomended

it should be first 140 (if thats how many you can seat) start to play then the alternates get seated as they sign up so 141th should be first to be sat, players signing up as alternates should be told at the time they hand there money over that they are on alternate list and what number of alternate they are incase they are not happy with the fact and they can therefore pull out

i think the fairest way to take out the blinds is remove 1 round of blinds for every 30 minutes (eg if you are seated in 25 minutes you lose 1 round of blinds if you are sat in 40 minutes you lose 2 rounds) money taken from alternates is put in the pot as they are sat

That was how Fari explained it to me. But this now cannot be accepted by the gaming board as now you sit down with less than you should have started and you have lost chips without playing a hand.

And I think the point has been lost....We cannot do the same system as USA because they allow late entries. The situation I am reffering to is for instance; 100 seat cardroom and 110 want to play (without going to 11 on a table this is an example) 110 people have registered now a draw must be done including the last 10 entries.

Not trying to cause problems, but if I turn up early to be sure of a seat & then miss out in a draw... I aint gonna be happy.

no way would i sign up for a comp without knowing before hand i was an alternate or starting player, if i signed up later than everyone else then i should be told i am signing up as an alternate and get the choice to sign up or go home.

as for the chips with a 6k starting stack and a 30 minute clock your talking 225chips i dont think its a must that you pay the blinds you already are disavantaged as the average is now above 6k

This is where it gets confusing though ironside. Some people would prefer to come in if blinds were not taken, due to playing less players and not risking any chips. So these people will now be hanging on to get to the alternate list instead, causing mayhem.

On the other hand, If you are coming in to the tourny as an alternate, then you are as you say getting a disadvantage because you are starting the comp when the average stack is more than when the tourny started. So if you are at a disadvantage they wont impliment it! Just being devil's advocate.

there are good and bad sides to be an alternate
good

you play less players
you play less deep stack play (alot of newbies internet players are poor in deep stages)

bad

you start with less than average stack
its harder to build up a stack as blinds are normally about to go up or have just gone up



now the way you get round the GC is by saying the player does start with the full starting stack just that he is forced into making a compulsory bet first hand by his chips going into the pot

including his BB as well if he comes in on it? Is the inclusion of his chips live or does he have to post blind as well before he can raise..if he can raise?

Does everyone have to call the amount he puts in or does the BB get an advantage?

i would say that he paid the bb the rest is dead money (just like in a cash game when you sit out in the blinds and come back before blinds hit you again you pay the bb/sb but sb is dead money)
remember it is likely only to be 1 or 2 rounds as alternates should only be able to get in for first 1 hour 2 at max

So if it is dead money then the BB has a definate advantage, doesn't he?

nope as the alternate is also in the pot and UTG and every other player also knows the dead money is in there so there is more chance of a steal attepmt

UTG so he will be the first person to act?

no the UTG player would know that the dead money is in the pot so no one gets unfair advantage

OK that sounds reasonable to me, Let me ponder on it for a while. TY